Rape...

[Tangential]

Maliseh, overly sensitive people like you who try to control what law abiding people can and can not do are the pitfalls of society.

But it's important to note that thinking that *that* is a valid criteria for intervention or regulation of the conduct of others is, most decidedly, one of the pitfalls of society at large.

If just expressing an opinion is considered a "pitfall of society" then, man oh man.. this world is pretty much shit, isn't it?

maliseh's post was just an opinion. Nowhere did she say people should be forced to stop RP'ing rape. She's not trying to control anyone. She's just saying it is cruel and could be psychologically harmful. The end. Stop flaming.

[Diego]

The pitfall isn't the fact that she expresses the opinion, but rather, that she holds it. No problem here with people speaking their mind, potential problem with the actual things being in their minds. Significant difference. This post seems like a plea for special consideration, and that sort of mentality *is* a pitfall, or put more precisely, a slippery slope. That's a fact of reality, and no one's psychological health should impede reconciliation with reality (this would be contradictory).

EDIT: I reject this line of discussion being written off as "flaming", since it is not a pointless exercise in any form of character destruction, but rather, a thorough analysis of the post and its implication. My sympathies go to the person in this position, but it is important to point out that sympathies don't accumulate into a good reason to do or not do anything.

[frenchfisher]

I don't understand what you're saying. We give "special consideration" to anyone who wants to in game; that's the cardinal rule of roleplaying: that no one should have to roleplay anything they don't want to. She was stating her opinion on this matter, and asking for clarification; several posters replied politely reminding her of this important rule and that she doesn't need to get involved with RP she doesn't want to, but that rape will still exist in-game. Turning this into more than it is—calling a fellow poster a "pitfall" just for holding an opinion!—is where you err.

[Idriveayugo]

I don't like those who try to restrict what others can and can not do. It's a pitfall. Don't tread on me.

[joo]

Have you ever heard of the expression "burn, rape and pillage," maliseh? That expression exists because humans have an aspect to them that is cruel, violent and lustful. In situations throughout history, and indeed today in some parts of the world, groups of people with a certain temperament, and power over other people, murder people without thought, destroy their homes, and force themselves upon women, sometimes in the name of some cause, and sometimes just randomly, because they can.

So human are very much capable of rape - it is one of the darker aspects of human nature - as well as nature as a whole, and it isn't only done by twisted, insane pshychopaths, so just keep in mind that people who might roleplay rape aren't neccesarily evil or twisted themselves. They might just want a realistic roleplaying experience that accurately reflects real world.

People kill each other regularly in Cantr, and sometimes torture as well, and these things are viewed in a similar light to rape in the real world. I'm sure that being raped isn't worse than losing a close friend or relative, so try to view it in the same perspective that you would a character dying. It's just a fictional world, so of course, you don't have to do anything you don't want to, however it is just text and doesn't have any direct implications in real life.

[Diego]

You're equating the position she holds with her identity. No one is assaulting *her* on any grounds whatsoever, but the *position* she explained *is*, structurally speaking, dangerous to hold, harmful. In much the same way, I don't mind an individual who is a socialist, but I do despise socialism. It's fallacious to present the situation as if the original poster has been subjected to any form of personal offense or injury.

[Dudel]

Dudel, rights are rights, nothing and no one has the power or authority to remove them, period. Ergo, rights, not priviledges.

As a human being you actually only have TWO RIGHTS. The right to your birth and your death. The rest are privileges that may be arbitrary taken so deal with it. What you mistake for a right was ONLY implied on you by another human so thus can be taken away as easily, much easier then they were given actually. I mean... where do you live again, Diego? I think you should understand that very well, considering your government.

"Special consideration" is exactly what I'd wish in this situation and I find the fact that she may not have such a thing because you find it "infringes" on some random right of yours, offensive.

You currently have the PRIVILEGE to RP as you will, which if things get "out of hand" could very well be taken from you.

I shall repeat myself...

While I'm not for being told what I can and can not do, I fully get what maliseh says and have to agree.. to a point.

Nothing should be exactly "restricted" but there seems to be an awkward line there between sane and not when certain things happen in Cantr. It does make you question the metal stability of its players when "certain things" happen in game.

Please do NOT make me repeat myself again... also I agree with Tang and I am writing you off as a flamer... again.

On a further note: joo put that VERY WELL. Gratz joo!

[*Wiro]

Some people seem to forget that you do not roleplay to, but roleplay with other players.

[joo]

Some people seem to forget that you do not make two, but one post with exactly the same content on a forum.

[chase02]

Some people seem to forget that joo likes to state the obvious.

[SekoETC]

Rape is often swept under the carpet irl so I assume there are a lot of misconseptions flying around. Like people might think that only losers who can't get a girlfriend are the ones that commit rape, when also people who are socially successful and wanted can do it too. One problem is that Cantrians are spawned as adults, so they are technically capable of rape from the moment they spawn (assuming Cantrians have human genitals). It seems like poor rp that someone would spawn as a rapist... Irl many rapists start out as stalkers or exhibitionists, or they might try seducing girls first and then get violent when she hits the breaks. If a newspawn with no in-game history is ready to assault a woman, most likely it's exhibiting the player's desire to play out their fantasies or disrupt the game rather than acting on the character's urges.

Also there's this one video I saw earlier. It has Kongo soldiers explaining why they rape. It's pretty unbelievable but still it sounds like the guys believe what they're saying, even though it's all double standards. They say they would get mad if someone raped their wives or sisters but are still doing it to other people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZIK9Ce0yM

[Elros]

Maliseh, overly sensitive people like you who try to control what law abiding people can and can not do are the pitfalls of society.

But it's important to note that thinking that *that* is a valid criteria for intervention or regulation of the conduct of others is, most decidedly, one of the pitfalls of society at large.

If just expressing an opinion is considered a "pitfall of society" then, man oh man.. this world is pretty much shit, isn't it?

maliseh's post was just an opinion. Nowhere did she say people should be forced to stop RP'ing rape. She's not trying to control anyone. She's just saying it is cruel and could be psychologically harmful. The end. Stop flaming.

Exactly, it is amazing how some people just can not carry on a decent conversation or even an argument without rapidly resorting to bashing a person that has a different point of view. I thought she was very courteous in the way she posted what she had to say, and she clearly stated multiple times that it was "her own opinion". Some people are just cold; not caring or kind at all...

[Diego]

Dudel, that line of discussion would lead us into a lengthy debate regarding rights, human rights, their meaning, their source and their significance. That's a debate for another time (and one I suspect I'd win, since my position is probably more thought-out and coherent than yours, I've given the matter obsessive consideration).

But I find it absurd that *any* of you think the original poster is being bashed. There is no problem with her as an individual. There *is* a problem with one of her stances, and that problem is in fact the archetype of conduct that *is* a slippery slope or pitfall in society, requesting or expecting special priviledge, drawing arbitrary lines on human conduct based on the perceived needs or feelings of other humans. I've been perfectly rational and non-inflammatory in my explanation of this, so either you kids don't *know* what flaming is, or you are already biased against judging the stances of people.

[Idriveayugo]

Exactly, it is amazing how some people just can not carry on a decent conversation or even an argument without rapidly resorting to bashing a person that has a different point of view. I thought she was very courteous in the way she posted what she had to say, and she clearly stated multiple times that it was "her own opinion". Some people are just cold; not caring or kind at all...

She also said though:

There's a limit, there's a line, there's a point where you need to stop because the thing you're typing is gonna harm a real person - and this is one of those things.

Interpret that the way you want, but the way I took it, she was saying that there needs to be a line in Cantr, and raping someone is crossing the line. I dislike people who think that way when something really isn't a big deal.

It would be one thing if she was speaking out against real rape, or drunk driving, or whatever, but this is a game and stuff happens. I understand that it's her own opinion, but Hitler had his own opinions as well and look at what happened there.

[SekoETC]

The line is in different places for different people. The important thing is finding where the line goes and not crossing it, but this is difficult when people are discouraged from using OOC (and I bet it takes some courage to tell a person who locked up your character that they're creeping you out). That's why I still think there should be a built-in system that allows people to flag their characters as sensitive or hardcore, so that others will know what level of explicit content the player is okay with.