Martial Arts/Hand-to-Hand Skill

[Drael]

In medieval japan and china, martial arts rivaled fully equipped soldiers with swords and some armour. An expertly trained martial artist could strike killing blows. Similarly boxing and wrestling in western traditions can in some cases be very effective. Martial fighting skills have been taught in schools for thousands of years, and are still taught in the modern military.

Of course, these skills require intensive training, usually under a master or expert. So in cantr, it could be the same.

*High skill levels (Skillfully, expertly) could only be trained at a decent rate by sparring with a person of that level. (Blows could be weakened with cloth on the fists or similar). This training, with a teacher, would still take longer than normal weapon training.

*It would be possible to learn on ones own the higher levels, but take much longer than above. Skillfully and expertly would not occur genetically.

*Only the high levels would grant sword or weapon like damages.

*The pugilist would have to not be holding a sheild to gain any high skill related bonuses (higher damage or defense bonuses). They would gain a low level sheild like defense against punching at skillfully, and an low sheild like defense against all attacks at expert. This, more than the damage possible, would be what sets hand to hand slightly under full equipment. (as well as the more difficult training)

This might enable more low tech areas to defend themselves, and would add to the possibilities of characters and combat IMO.

Thoughts? Suggestions for how it could be done?

[QueenofBlades]

I think if we do that, we might have to add in muscles as well--I mean, there's a difference between skill and strength, and I think we should have a least two types--one that relies mainly on brute strength and one that deals more with agility and speed.

I would love to see this implemented though because I have several charries who would looove this. :] Great idea.

[Drael]

Well true. Martial arts(kicks and punches and throwing) are more skill, and boxing and wrestling/grappling more strength.

You could simply take whatever is highest of the two, but it would be cooler for roleplaying to have different catertergories if its not too hard to code. Wrestling could prevent a player from moving a little like a drag?

It may be easier simpler im not sure. Having the variety would be cooler though, for easy RPing.

Cantr is essentially in a feudal period, and in some areas weapons are prohibited, hand to hand to me, makes sence. (apart from how fun it could be to RP, and for society/culture)

[kronos]

Cantr, not street fighter.

[Rebma]

Agree with kronos.

[Drael]

Isnt that the point of making martial arts inferior to weapons by a significant shade, and slower to learn?

Ive factored that in, so weapons still come out on top generally.

Plus, it doesnt have to be even martial arts in the asian sense. It can be traditional romo-grecian wrestling, and greek style boxing. All real cultures have explored hand to hand and cantr's possibility/reality as a cultural persistant world is undeniable.

Cantr is a cultural world. Its not just society, its culture. And part of culture, has always been hand to hand fighting.

My idea is really for RPing, culture, and for lower tech societies having a little more defence.

It has nothing to do with street fighter, which is fantasy based (magic, no thanks), and more to do with RL, which cantr, very well apart from small technical difficulties manages to emulate.

A strike to you your neck with a fist can kill, a kick can seriously wound, a wrestle can contain you and hurt you, and a hit to your groin or solar plexus will wound you.

Putting it lower than the effect of a battle axe or crossbow and a sheild is generous IMO. Even if its low power, or otherwise limited, I maintain it adds to the game, and not in a yugo way. Cantr is well above that, culturally.

In the end, the flavour part would be RPing, like anything. The wouldnt call it tai-kon-dow in DoUrden. Theyd call it something else.

[kronos]

I drive in a van and shoot you with a crossbow. How would you accept the use of martial arts in this sense? I'm a locked car. You can punch already, just Rp it.

[Rebma]

Basically all you're saying is increase damage caused by fists. No need to have a huge explanation. One sentence does it.

[kronos]

Remba has it. Increase damage, then roleplay the rest.

[Drael]

Basically all you're saying is increase damage caused by fists. No need to have a huge explanation. One sentence does it.

At a minimum, this works, but again, only on the higher levels.

We dont want everyone punching everything all the time !!! And also time is spent making sheilds and swords and we dont want martial arts/hand-to-hand completely aceing that unless the time spent is similar.

But yeah, it could all be RP'd, past just adjusting a few values, and thus shudnt be hard to code.

[QueenofBlades]

Ok, but say we have someone who studies the agile/speed martial art. This in turn increases his speed and accuracy in other areas, like weapons, making him a better all around fighter. I've several times wanted to play a character that used their body as a weapon, if they studied it to the point of skill. I mean, IRL, you have people that study this stuff and control their metabolism and heat and stuff (though I don't really know why...)
There's so much that could be exponentially done with this, like you could play a "holy" character that defends their land with only the gifts their god gave them--themselves.
There's just so much potentialhere. I'm surprised there's not actually more support behind this.

[chase02]

I'm sure I read somewhere Jos saying that cantr only has the very basics of combat implemented to discourage it in general.. amirite?

[Drael]

Ok, but say we have someone who studies the agile/speed martial art. This in turn increases his speed and accuracy in other areas, like weapons, making him a better all around fighter. I've several times wanted to play a character that used their body as a weapon, if they studied it to the point of skill. I mean, IRL, you have people that study this stuff and control their metabolism and heat and stuff (though I don't really know why...)
There's so much that could be exponentially done with this, like you could play a "holy" character that defends their land with only the gifts their god gave them--themselves.
There's just so much potentialhere. I'm surprised there's not actually more support behind this.

Well, theres the whole area of mind over body, meditation, prayer, faith healing and also focus in tasks or combat, that is a feature of the mind-body complex. It would add to religion.

But thats a whole nother topic!

I'm sure I read somewhere Jos saying that cantr only has the very basics of combat implemented to discourage it in general.. amirite?

Combat is rife! With this theyll prevent wars with smaller communities etc, giving defense to those places. When they add deteriorating items, wars will have costs. Things might stablize more, which is fun for a community IMO.

Tyrants are a problem. Just like feudal times lol!

[Piscator]

The problem I see is that skills and skill building are more of a flavour than a substantial part of this game. If you would apply the current skill system to hand-to-hand combat it could very well be that some chars are born as martial arts masters while others could train their whole lifes and stay below average. You wouldn't even be able to learn from a martial arts master to improve your skill.

To conclude, Cantr is a game that is designed to be about equipment, not skills and I don't see how martial arts would fit in.

[Drael]

To conclude, Cantr is a game that is designed to be about equipment, not skills and I don't see how martial arts would fit in.

To me, cantr is a game about society. Skills add to RP, and to society. The products are an extension of the personalities. If nothing else, Martial arts could add to that.