Skill requirements?

[toon]

I was thinking about how easy it was to make vehicles and housed and all of that and after thinking about how easy it is for anyone, I thinght about how it would be nearly impossable to start a real business/monopoly. I mean If you tried to start a business, it's hard to really get one going and spread it around because anyone can do what you can just a little slower or faster.

What I guess I am trying to say is: Maybe for some of the skills like manufacturing cars/construction/shipbuilding you could have limits for the skill levels. That way a business would actually have something to give that people might not be able to get on they're own. I mean right now, I can't go out and build a hummer from scratch. I'm not saying that you need to do that for all skills like farming. Everyone needs to be able to get food. But, it would create more of a demand for workers, thus increasing the development and rivalry of business.

I know many people might not agree with this, but I thought it might help to start making businesses actually important. It would give a reason for people to train up their skills if they are not naturally skilled at something. This is just a thought.

[Rebma]

So you're saying if you are expert at making tools, and I'm awkward at it, you could make pretty much any tool, whereas I'd be limited to, say, bone tools?

If that's what you meant, that's interesting to say the least. I actually kinda like it, but I don't think too many others will. Because of the random skills they spawn with and they'll probably bitch about it being hard enough to get things done as it is.

But I like it.

[toon]

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. If you are akward, you make bone tools, an expert could make steel tools. If you think it's hard... It's life... that's how things are. And I'm glad you like it. And maybe sometime you could somehow add apprenticing to this. Who knows.

[DylPickle]

If they implemented a way of teaching skills somehow along with it, it'd be a really neat idea.

I've been dabbling with a game called EVE: Online, where you don't level, but train skills one at a time, over time. There's such a variety of concentrations of skills that it's inefficient to try to balance between them all. This has sparked a lively player based economy and occupation market in the game, and it's really half the fun of it all.

Lots of people would probably hate it in cantr though, with their utopian bantering about how you should always be able to "be whoever you want" crap.

[toon]

You can still be whatever you want, you just might have to train more than some other people.

[Drael]

Or just rather than having many levels, more simply it could just have a few items etc that can only be built by an expert?

[Rebma]

That's basically what we said Drael. If you were an expert tool maker you could build steel tools, a novice, bone or such.

I feel like a broken record tonight.

[Piscator]

If they implemented a way of teaching skills somehow along with it, it'd be a really neat idea.

I think it would even be necessary. Otherwise, how would you reach expert level if you are only skilled? You would be crafting tons of tools just for practice, whether they are needed or not. I guess it would boost economy for a while, but a few years later you'd be sitting on a huge pile of junk.

Learning rates could be adjusted of course, but the whole thing smells like a major change and the results could be unexpected.

[DylPickle]

If they implemented a way of teaching skills somehow along with it, it'd be a really neat idea.

I think it would even be necessary. Otherwise, how would you reach expert level if you are only skilled? You would be crafting tons of tools just for practice, whether they are needed or not. I guess it would boost economy for a while, but a few years later you'd be sitting on a huge pile of junk.

Learning rates could be adjusted of course, but the whole thing smells like a major change and the results could be unexpected.

Exactly.

[SekoETC]

This would be pretty interesting as long as there are enough methods to practice. I really wish there was a way to teach others since for example in this Finnish town my character is awkward at cooking and there is another person who is skillful or expert, and it's pretty ridiculous that I can't learn just by watching how he does it.

[Rebma]

Like, if you are awkward and work on a project with someone who was skilled/expert, that could be them "teaching you". This would work on everything but fighting and hunting.

[Piscator]

This would also give an incentive for co-operation. I'm all for it.

[Rebma]

I think I should clarify a little, since I just thought of this.

If person A is an awkward tool maker, they can only make bone tools. If we implement the ability to learn by working with person B, would A & B both have to worth on bone tools to help A learn? Because if A isn't skilled enough to make steel tools, they will not be able to join B's project to help out.

So to clarify Person B can work on any type of tool. Person A can work on only bone tools. Person A can improve their skill if Person B works on bone tools with them (and as they progress they could work on each higher level of tool).

[Piscator]

I guess if there is at least one person working on the project who has the necessary qualification, it should be possible. If we assume that the experienced char is teaching the less experienced ones while working on the project, we can also assume that this char is able to tell the others what to do, even if they wouldn't be able to do it on their own.

The experienced character would act as a foreman, while the others would be unskilled workers who would help with menial tasks.

[Dust Puppy]

I don´t think that the lack of businesses is caused by things being too easy to make. I see people interested in buying items (especially those that need lots of tools to make) instead of making them themselves all the time, but often the business just doesn´t have enough employees to manufacture enough items, or the owner is too sleepy to sell them, or the customers can´t afford the price and by the time they can the item is sold out, and so on.

I´m a bit wary of ideas that make people go "ooooh, this´ll force people to cooperate" anyway, because no, it won´t.

Restricting the possibility to do something doesn´t make people cooperate to get it done. It only results in things not getting done (and players getting bored), because those who want to do something can´t do it, and those who couldn´t be bothered (or didn´t have time) to help in the first place won´t suddenly be bothered to help just because the help is needed instead of optional.

Just my opinion/experience, feel free to disregard.