How common is sex in Cantr?

[Sunni Daez]

Wiro, those picture responses were posted because of Brimstars remark. No, has nothing to do with cantr, just a response to the comment.

Seko, It depends on how you google as to what you get. And yes, one site, will tell you one thing the next will tell you another. And by the way, I don't piss on your country, stop pissing on mine. They all have faults, they all are far from perfect.. accept it.

[joo]

Wow, I never realised how many idiots play Cantr...

[*Wiro]

Wiro, those picture responses were posted because of Brimstars remark. No, has nothing to do with cantr, just a response to the comment.

I understand that, but all the other quotes aren't about "text sex"/roleplaying sex. If I missed any, please correct me.

And by the way, I don't piss on your country, stop pissing on mine. They all have faults, they all are far from perfect.. accept it.

True, but you can't deny Bush did more bad than good to the US and the effects of that are clearly visible. I guess that's what you get with presidents and stuff, not like queens/kings are good either (or leadership-STDs as I call them.) Buuh, I'm straying off the subject again. >.<;

And yes, one site, will tell you one thing the next will tell you another.

True, but I have yet to see a somewhat reliable site that states that roleplaying sex with someone underaged is illegal when not knowing the other person's age.

Wow, I never realised how many idiots play Cantr...

Behave.



Oh, and I missed the rape thing, raping is allowed in Cantr, I'm quite sure about that. But only if BOTH players agree. Any good roleplayer/ person with brains would ask the player's permission OOC before doing it. It's quite obvious that a rape without both players' permission isn't ok.

[Sunni Daez]

Miss this one?

Quote:
In certain situations, even mistake of age could still get you in trouble with the law if you discuss sexual related matters on line to a minor. Even if the person you are talking with electronically is a cop and represents him or herself as a minor, it is illegal to communicate anything of a sexual nature. http://www.southerncaliforniadefenseblog.com/2009/01/internet_sex_crimes_in_califor.html

By the way, I have contacted an attorney.. (no, I did not mention which game, just a basic question about rp text sex/rape with minors) I will let you know what he says.

and as I have said many times.. I am not telling anyone NOT to do it... It is your choice..

Quote:
And by the way, I don't piss on your country, stop pissing on mine. They all have faults, they all are far from perfect.. accept it.

[BlueNine]

Quote:
In certain situations, even mistake of age could still get you in trouble with the law if you discuss sexual related matters on line to a minor. Even if the person you are talking with electronically is a cop and represents him or herself as a minor, it is illegal to communicate anything of a sexual nature. http://www.southerncaliforniadefenseblog.com/2009/01/internet_sex_crimes_in_califor.html

In certain situations and represents him or herself as a minor are the parts of that text which stand out to me the most...if you ask their age (or PD) and they say they're over 18, none of that applies.

Although I do advise people to follow the advice in the article that

If you ever read any communication with a person represents themselves as under 18 years old, discontinue the communication immediately.

And thats advice for people in chat rooms...not an online rpg. Hell i'm sure there are underagers who play WoW and "cyber" in circumstances which are even less IC and the only reports I could find on people getting arrested are where they actually try to meet the person

[Sunni Daez]

if you ask their age (or PD) and they say they're over 18, none of that applies.

why not?

[*Wiro]

if you ask their age (or PD) and they say they're over 18, none of that applies.

why not?

Because they do not do anything along the lines of `represents him or herself as a minor´, as with your quote. Cantr is anonymous and if someone lies about their age, the player who roleplays sex with them isn't at fault.

Did you tell the attorney that it is not known wether or not the one being roleplayed with is an adult and that it is possible that minors might lie about their age?

[Sunni Daez]

yes

[joo]

Wow, I never realised how many idiots play Cantr...

Behave.

**** yourself.


*edited for language Sunni

[chase02]

Wow, I never realised how many idiots play Cantr...

Behave.

**** yourself.

[Sunni Daez]

Because they do not do anything along the lines of `represents him or herself as a minor´, as with your quote. Cantr is anonymous and if someone lies about their age, the player who roleplays sex with them isn't at fault.

The quote says "even if..", not that they have to.. And, do you know of a law or is that just your interpretation?

If someone lies about being 16 and they are 14... the adult still gets into trouble I do believe..

[Tangential]

If someone lies about being 16 and they are 14... the adult still gets into trouble I do believe..

If we want to make this an issue about legality then..that's just up my alley

Laws can get so convoluted at times; and on top of that, they are always evolving either with social norms or setting the new (and often paternalistic) norm. Alright, here's the deal. It is a given that sex with a minor is a crime - doesn't matter if you are intrinsically morally against it or just are abiding by these so-called laws. Even if a minor consents to sexual intercourse, it is statutory rape - no matter if the minor lied about his or her age. See this article relating to Alisha Dean:

Article from cfcamerica.org
Article from wftv.com
Article from jonathanturley.org

These articles (I included multiple because, unfortunately, a few are not well written, in my opinion) show that thirteen-year-old Alisha Dean lied about her age on Myspace, advertising that she was nineteen. She lured two men (ages 22 and 24) into having sex with her and then were arrested for statutory rape.

There is even the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006 put into place by our beloved late President George W. Bush that defines and requires a three-tier classification system for sex offenders (what it involves and what the punishments are)

BUT, there is a however. However, what does real-life sexual conduct and intercouse have to do with Cantr..? This is where I am going to out-right say that what Cantr offers has no place to be categorized in the same "sex-with-minor-online" category. Cantr is the virtual world of role-play; it is not a sex chat room (supposedly).

The article linked in previous post by Sunni entitled "Internet Sex Crimes in California Includes Obscene Electronic Communication With Minor" makes it seem that California is finally using that whip and cracking down on these child sex offenders, but I can tell you right now that those codes listed in that article (or rather advertisement) don't clarify or do much better than the previous existing set of codes.

If you care to read the exact words of the codes, I have linked codes 288.2, 288.3, and 288.4 of the California Penal Code.

The main problem with these codes (which applies to the conflict at hand in this Cantr topic) is the uncertainty of -knowing- the age of the role-player. Even if actively pursued for the knowledge of knowing the age of the player, there's always the possibility of his/her lying at registration or upon confrontation. So, really, you are left with nothing despite genuine, moral effort.

So why even do the virtual "sexy time" (words of the great Borat)? Because we have the freedom to create an alternate world of our real-life one. We are free to imagine and fantasize still, right? People are cognitive creatures; while some have "clean" (or what is socially accepted as clean) thoughts, some others, unfortunately, have "unclean" ones to balance the spectrum. But that doesn't mean those with "unclean" thoughts would -act- on them in real life to hurt someone. This is leads to the vital differentiation between "sexy time" in Cantr and "sexy time" in chat rooms.

Writing is an art. Straight cybersex, on the other hand, is not - definitely not - art. Though, it might be safe to say that maybe some people do use their characters in short replies just like the form of an instant message in a chatroom (if that is the case, boy, did you choose the wrong forum to get your thing on - seriously). There may be events in Cantr when someone encounters another sexual character, but frequently there are cues to gauge the other player's inclination to sexual behavior based on his/her character's perceived responses. If that person doesn't want to go any further than making out, an out of character comment should suffice if the partner hadn't already asked in a OOC comment about age. Secondly, from just how a character is RP'd, one can reasonably guess the relative age of the player. A mature mind will obviously manifest itself, as opposed to an immature one (or that of a minor with little exposure to sexual content). If that person's character was "forced" into a sex event, then the great thing about Cantr is that it is -text-based. There's no graphics; no physical contact. One would not necessarily get "hurt" (mentally, in this case) unless that person wishes to read the words. Even in that instance, turning the words into an imaginary "scarring" scene in one's head requires being scarred in the first place - be it through rated 'R' movies or what-not.

Here is an actual U.S. Supreme Court case that deals with an aspect of role-play and its relevance to sexual communication: http://federalevidence.com/pdf/2008/09-Sept/US_v._Joseph.pdf
And here's an annotated version of the case:
http://www.johntfloyd.com/blog/2008/10/02/cybersex-conversations-not-a-crime/comment-page-1/

If you read the case to its entirety, you might conclude that the guy probably pulled that "role-play" defense from his ass and his real intentions were quite obvious. But the reason I even posted this case was because of the expert testimony - Dr. James Herriot, an Associate Professor of Clinical Sexuality at the Institute of Advanced Human Sexuality in San Francisco, as an expert witness about “role-playing” in cybersex conversations. It shows that:

"[a] major component of the entertainment on the Internet is the rapid repartee, in addition to having imaginative fun. When engaging in Internet role-play, people love to experiment with their personas. Typically, people weave a bit of truth about themselves with a great deal of imagination and/or exaggeration. The Internet presents [a] competitive entertainment. . . . Sexually explicit conversations tend to drive the chatting relationship, and are fueled by the anonymity of the created personas."

Despite there being no clear cut resolution to the case yet, I just wanted to point out the differences between (1) the people who the FBI and police force are targeting to incarcerate sex offenders hiding behind a screen, but then -intend- to meet those minors, knowingly, at a specified location and (2) players of Cantr who role-play, sexually or nonsexually, on a bright green screen. Big difference. The accusation of any legal liability would not take place as long as it stays on screen and in natural role-play of the game. The law has bigger fish to fry instead of calculating the legality of Cantr players' role-play who are essentially just playing a watered down version of Second Life minus the graphics platform.

I think I have ranted enough. I applaud you if any of you made it to here. Any other legal buffs in here? And also, for those still remotely interested, here's a link to an article posted by the Internation Journal of Cyber Criminology. It details the traits of an addict sex offender. These are the ones the law is trying to protect everyone from.

[Sunni Daez]

Though you make several good points.... (are you an attorney or just in law school or just like to study law?) I recieved an answer from an attorney.

my question:
A roleplay game, text based, no photos. Anonymous players. Can there be legal action taken against the adult who roleplays explicit sex or rape with a minor (not knowing the other was a minor) if there is not solicitation to meet outside of the game? There is no warning about sexual content nor an 'adults only' statement, and allows minors to play. This is game has world wide access.

And the Attorney says...

"I'd say that there's a good possibility that the adult(knowing that minors are permitted to engage in this corrupt nonsense) described could at some point be federally charged for the kind of "roleplay game" described in the question.(After all, "lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor" can take many forms---even if a minor isn't actually involved.)"

Minors are allowed to play this game... Parents are not told it is played the way it is. There is absolutely nothing in the description of the game that even hints there is sexual activity within the game.

I said it before, I will say it again, Sex does not belong in Cantr.
I am not telling anyone what to do... tis thier choice. Laws are interprted by judges and jurys and attorneys. Not game players.

If that person doesn't want to go any further than making out, an out of character comment should suffice if the partner hadn't already asked in a OOC comment about age. Secondly, from just how a character is RP'd, one can reasonably guess the relative age of the player. A mature mind will obviously manifest itself, as opposed to an immature one (or that of a minor with little exposure to sexual content). If that person's character was "forced" into a sex event, then the great thing about Cantr is that it is -text-based. There's no graphics; no physical contact. One would not necessarily get "hurt" (mentally, in this case) unless that person wishes to read the words. Even in that instance, turning the words into an imaginary "scarring" scene in one's head requires being scarred in the first place - be it through rated 'R' movies or what-not.

This is where I am going to out-right say that what Cantr offers has no place to be categorized in the same "sex-with-minor-online" category. Cantr is the virtual world of role-play; it is not a sex chat room (supposedly).

All true, but those are just opinions as every one else has. Rated R movies are RESTRICTED.. parents make the choice of allowing a 14 year old to watch these. Acting is an artform also, so why is the movie restricted, yet Cantr isn't?

I am not trying to ban minors, nor stop anyone from persuing what they want to do. I was just concerned because this thread was making sex in Cantr to be a good and wanted thing. It makes fun of rape and it's victims. There was even an admittance to role playing sex with someone who was known to be a minor. I wanted to point out that there is another side, thats all. Some young minds are very well developed. I have had conversations with young ones that make a whole lot more sense than adults do. Just be careful, you know the person on the other end could be a minor, even if you ask or check with PD, they can still be a minor.

[SekoETC]

You could've mentioned that players are required to provide one's age when registering and it's possible to check with the staff if a player has reported one's age to be 18 or over, so if a player intending to initiate sexual dialog first contacts the staff to ask if the partner is of legal age, the only chance of ending up playing with a minor is when the minor has lied about one's age during registering.

[chase02]

the only chance of ending up playing with a minor is when the minor has lied about one's age during registering.

Which is the most likely scenario really, if that is what they come to cantr to participate in (for lulz or gratitude, whatever).

Thanks Sunni for actually getting a proper response on this - the result is as I expected. A huge issue for cantr and one I hope Jos takes seriously, for his sake.