Iraq feels the liberal way of the west...

[Pirog]

Meh>

This is why the EU is has a list of "languages of power". A convient way to keep a few silly dialects the standard because someone wrote something significant in the eyes of the EU five centries ago while supressing other languages that more people speak today. And I am not talking about English.

Could you give an example?

And there you go again saying that setting up a democracy over a regieme that killed and toututred for no reason daily while the EU lead the charge to end sancations is a lifestyle change. I know lets force a system that has never ever worked anywhere onto them. Or better yet leave them alone and sell them cat'o'nine tails with italian leather with swedish goverment backed steel tied in.

But with democracy comes the western lifestyle in general.
I'm sure they would like the idea of living in their culture but having a democratic system, but nowdays democracy means McDonalds, Hollywood movies etc. as much as the political system in itself.
And that is why America is so interested in being involved in every conflict on this planet, because you are trying to force your way of life upon people. And frankly, the way American culture works today people get numbingly dumb, and this is something most intelligent Americans are aware of.

The only goal is to keep places from being from exporting orgianzied crime and terrorism. Nothing gets done sitting around with a meatball up your butt.

I actually think I do more for stopping terror by doing nothing then by killing one terrorist and creating ten new ones from the civilian lives lost in the struggle.
Look at Spain. The terrorist attack there would never have happened if they didn't get involved in the war.

But yeah let the Bosians and the Croations do their ethic cleansing while you sip wine and cheese just a few miles away. After all taking away ethic cleasing would just be forcing a lifestyle choice wouldn't it?

Now you are just being silly...
Once again you seem to think that just because I critizise USA I automatically side with all evil powers around the world.
I thought you were smarter than that.
I think EU acted much to slow in that conflict, so don't force opinions on me that I haven't spoken of.

Nitefyre>

Does that satisfy your disgusting hypocritical stereotyping?

Well, you are incredibly stereotypical of the ignorant American in these matters...so yes
I find it interesting that you Americans joke so much amongst yourself about how arrogant you are, how little knowledge you have about the rest of the world and how everybody hates you...but if a foreigner points these things out you question it and becomes very defensive.

Yes people who lost loved ones may have been in post traumatic stress and other greiving processes years later, but we had a war to fight, and that just shows how we were not in shock.

Um...the whole war on terror thing was very much a hasted reaction based on the fact that you were still in shock.
You screwed up a centuries worth of diplomatic relations by yelling "side with us or the enemy" (just like you do with me) when it should be obvious that most people just wanted to stay neutral while you found a suitable scapegoat for something you had drawn on yourself.

I must ask a question. Do you think that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attack?

[The Hunter]

But yeah let the Bosians and the Croations do their ethic cleansing while you sip wine and cheese just a few miles away. After all taking away ethic cleasing would just be forcing a lifestyle choice wouldn't it?

Ummm. The serb-Craotia war was actually different. The EU asked for US/Nato intervention. The EU didnt have the means, nor the experience to do it alone. But when asked the US actually didn't want to help... That's why the intervention took so long.

I have spoken to several serbs... They always blame the US alone... That's one of those cases I actually defend the US and tell them how it went...

[nitefyre]

But yeah let the Bosians and the Croations do their ethic cleansing while you sip wine and cheese just a few miles away. After all taking away ethic cleasing would just be forcing a lifestyle choice wouldn't it?

I have spoken to several serbs... They always blame the US alone... That's one of those cases I actually defend the US and tell them how it went...

Yes, my serb friend but he lives here, blames us fucking americans for getting involved amidst genocide in the entire conflict there, and still fucking can't shut up about how his country shot down an F-117 of the United States. *applauds sarcastically* I really wished that the U.S. Military did not have to be used as the World's Police Force, it fucking sucks that way. Oh right, what was that we have the UN Peacekeeping Corps? Ohhh yes the one who fucked up in Rwanda for one scenario.

'To keep the peace, you must sometimes war.'

[Meh]

Meh>

This is why the EU is has a list of "languages of power". A convient way to keep a few silly dialects the standard because someone wrote something significant in the eyes of the EU five centries ago while supressing other languages that more people speak today. And I am not talking about English

Could you give an example?

If I get time I will look it up. But you can find the same information by looking up EU languages. There is a few websites out there against the language cleansing.

And there you go again saying that setting up a democracy over a regieme that killed and toututred for no reason daily while the EU lead the charge to end sancations is a lifestyle change. I know lets force a system that has never ever worked anywhere onto them. Or better yet leave them alone and sell them cat'o'nine tails with italian leather with swedish goverment backed steel tied in.

But with democracy comes the western lifestyle in general.
I'm sure they would like the idea of living in their culture but having a democratic system, but nowdays democracy means McDonalds, Hollywood movies etc. as much as the political system in itself.
And that is why America is so interested in being involved in every conflict on this planet, because you are trying to force your way of life upon people. And frankly, the way American culture works today people get numbingly dumb, and this is something most intelligent Americans are aware of.

So you say that death is preferrrable. And you would force that decision on others. Why not just skip the middle man and became a tourturer yourself?

The only goal is to keep places from being from exporting orgianzied crime and terrorism. Nothing gets done sitting around with a meatball up your butt.

I actually think I do more for stopping terror by doing nothing then by killing one terrorist and creating ten new ones from the civilian lives lost in the struggle.
Look at Spain. The terrorist attack there would never have happened if they didn't get involved in the war.

The Basqe (excuse the spelling) were wanting independence before and some of them were resorting violence before. What you are saying is that suddenly if the war was not entered the Basqe would just give up wanting independence and the violent ones would just forget about it? Yeah. Right.

But yeah let the Bosians and the Croations do their ethic cleansing while you sip wine and cheese just a few miles away. After all taking away ethic cleasing would just be forcing a lifestyle choice wouldn't it?

Now you are just being silly...
Once again you seem to think that just because I critizise USA I automatically side with all evil powers around the world.
I thought you were smarter than that.
I think EU acted much to slow in that conflict, so don't force opinions on me that I haven't spoken of.

No. No. No. You keep implying that everything is done to force a lifestlye. Which is a conveint stand to take from a stand of doing nothing at all. Here is my interpetation of what you said:

Most European countries have finally started to understand that the rest of the world doesn't see us as a goal to where they want to reach, so they have stopped trying to force their life style on them.

My interpetation of your words: Doing anything is bad. Doing nothing is good. I am numb to the pain of others. Best not to get involved. Getting involved might comprise my lifestyle. Rather I live in peace while others die than bear any risk at all. They are not from here so who cares what they do to each other.

[Pirog]

Meh>

If I get time I will look it up. But you can find the same information by looking up EU languages. There is a few websites out there against the language cleansing.

I haven't found anything, so please put in link or something if you have any. I don't even understand what you mean.

So you say that death is preferrrable. And you would force that decision on others. Why not just skip the middle man and became a tourturer yourself?

Death is preferable? To what? The American culture?
Obviously not, since I live in a country greatly influenced by USA.
What I say is that a soveriegn country should have the right to make their own decisions. Obviously there are many who prefer to live their lives very different from us. Who are we to judge them?

The Basqe (excuse the spelling) were wanting independence before and some of them were resorting violence before. What you are saying is that suddenly if the war was not entered the Basqe would just give up wanting independence and the violent ones would just forget about it? Yeah. Right.

Um, no. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
I have never claimed that the basque would disappear...but so far it doesn't seem that they were behind it, so why are you even bringing them up?

No. No. No. You keep implying that everything is done to force a lifestlye. Which is a conveint stand to take from a stand of doing nothing at all. Here is my interpetation of what you said:

First of all, I don't see you doing more than I do, so stop being judgemental about that.
And secondly, if you have missed the fact that USA is engaging in cultural imperialism you really need to start opening your eyes.

My interpetation of your words: Doing anything is bad. Doing nothing is good. I am numb to the pain of others. Best not to get involved. Getting involved might comprise my lifestyle. Rather I live in peace while others die than bear any risk at all. They are not from here so who cares what they do to each other.

Well, I have allready understood that you war supporters here are very skilled at misunderstanding and twisting peoples words, but thanks for another stimulating lesson.
Turning my arguments into that is as bad as me claiming that you see war as a solution to everything.
You seem to see everything in black and white, but the world doesn't work like that. There is very seldom one single solution to a problem, and escuse me for not believing that bombing a country to pieces is the best way to help them. Especially when your economy is so shot to hell that you won't be able to help them rebuild their country when the war is over.

Since almost every conflict in the world today is a result of western imperialism and intervention it should be obvious to anyone with at least a remote knowledge of history and politics that Europe and USA tends to f*ck things up instead of doing any good.
Obviously there will be scenarios where intervention is needed, but how many conflicts have actually been solved so far?

And even if the Iraq issue had been solved in a good way (witch it clearly hasn't), I'm not sure if even that would weigh up the fact that Americas constant arrogance towards international laws will start to rub off on other countries.
What will happen then? When large countries like India and Pakistan starts to take things in their own hands and ignore the rest of the world.
We could have another world war on our hands if the international laws lose their purpose.

[Pirog]

Meh>

I am numb to the pain of others. Best not to get involved. Getting involved might comprise my lifestyle. Rather I live in peace while others die than bear any risk at all. They are not from here so who cares what they do to each other.

...and I find it very ironic that you are trying to point ME out as the cynical one, when you are the one cheering for Bush on his conquest against the world.
More people are dying in Iraq now then they did under Saddam Hussein, and until that changes you should be very careful about accusing others.

[rklenseth]

Meh>

I am numb to the pain of others. Best not to get involved. Getting involved might comprise my lifestyle. Rather I live in peace while others die than bear any risk at all. They are not from here so who cares what they do to each other.

...and I find it very ironic that you are trying to point ME out as the cynical one, when you are the one cheering for Bush on his conquest against the world.
More people are dying in Iraq now then they did under Saddam Hussein, and until that changes you should be very careful about accusing others.

That, I'm sorry, isn't true.

[Pirog]

Really?
So you are saying that Iraq was practially in a constant wae during Saddam Hussein?

I have friends that worked in Iraq a couple of years ago.
They didn't like the country and found it creepy, but they never felt threatened and have never spoken of violence.

[nitefyre]

Really?
So you are saying that Iraq was practially in a constant wae during Saddam Hussein?

I have friends that worked in Iraq a couple of years ago.
They didn't like the country and found it creepy, but they never felt threatened and have never spoken of violence.

Your argument is flawed and full of heresay, -Saddam killed thousands if not millions. We are safer today without Saddam, of course he didnt threaten western workers, he's not that stupid. Ever heard of the Shi-ite uprising and his gassing dead disgustingly thousands of kurds?

[Pirog]

Well, DUH!!!

I was obviously not refering to ALL THE YEARS of Saddams rule.
My god! You are behaving like little children. Can't you use any form of logic when discussing with people!!??

I'm talking about the death rate compared on a daily basis.

[Pirog]

Look, we obviously can't discuss politics on this board since you start twisting words and intentionally misunderstand what I write when you run out of arguments.
It is sad, since I have found it interesting to see how other people think about such events...but this will only lead to a fight.

Edit:
Oh, and sorry for losing my temper...but it is frustrating when you aren't discussing in a fair manner.

[Meh]

Fine. Continue having america as the dark devil that cuases all the problems of the world if that is what helps you escape your own guilt. And you said you were not a relgious person. You are in the a church that preaches that america is the root of all evil which gives you some kind of feeling of superority and blamelessness.

Many of the things you have siad about how I feel are innaccurate at best.

Blame is not a solution. Blame is just blame. What is your solution?

If your solution is to do nothing then we should have started that in the 1930s. Then I would not be talking to you. I would be talking to someone who looks just like me.

[nitefyre]

Fine. Continue having america as the dark devil that cuases all the problems of the world if that is what helps you escape your own guilt. And you said you were not a relgious person. You are in the a church that preaches that america is the root of all evil which gives you some kind of feeling of superority and blamelessness.

Many of the things you have siad about how I feel are innaccurate at best.

Blame is not a solution. Blame is just blame. What is your solution?

If your solution is to do nothing then we should have started that in the 1930s. Then I would not be talking to you. I would be talking to someone who looks just like me.

I concur completely on this matter =D too bad no one agreed a while back when me and Pirog had this same argument. I'm surprised you wanted to explore this extreme view again, and only to lose yer temper shutting down what you started, thats because people don't agree with you-not thatw'ere not fair. Your fanatic liberal isolationism is what gets you not to be agreed with on this topic.

Oh, and sorry for losing my temper...but it is frustrating when you aren't discussing it fairly

*DIES* LMAOROFL!

[As Heaven Turns To Ash]

Saddam's Regime benefited one bloc of the population. Apparently, that bloc is very pissed off now.

[nitefyre]

Saddam's Regime benefited one bloc of the population. Apparently, that bloc is very pissed off now.

Welcome to the Forums

Yer right, *coughs* Fallujah and the dragging of the bodies through the street. When this starts happening, you know they're very very pissed.