Cantr Is Dying. What Then Shall We Do?

[psymann]

Well, there were massive lag issues and most players dropped during that period right?

Now things seem to run smoothly.

It still amazes me each time I hear this sort of thing...

I've been playing Cantr now for (I think) getting on for two years. I started in about 1680s in-game anyway, whatever that works out as.

When I started, the game, lag-wise, was pretty much the same as it is now. In between, we had a couple of periods where it was so much worse it was farcical.

But although the farcical can't-play-at-all-because-it's-so-bad times seem to have gone (touch wood), it's Still Laggy And Still Annoyingly Slow To Play!

I don't know whether I have too-high expectations for a free game, but I've played a fair few free games and Cantr, even at its fastest speed, is still the slowest to play. And by slow, I mean slow to load pages and use the interface.

On most websites, you click, and by the time you've blinked twice, the page has appeared. Pretty much by the time you've positioned the mouse in the right place for the button you know will appear on the next page, the page appears and you can click straight away. Cantr has NEVER been like this. You click the link, then count to ten, and then the page finally appears. Yes, for a while, you counted to ten, made a cup of tea and mowed the lawn, and then the page appeared, but although it's now better than that, it's still Really Really Slow.

And that, coupled with some really annoying and slow user-interface features that require you to make three clicks where one ought to do, make it really really annoying to play.

I started keenly, getting up to ten characters all busy. But the more I played, and the more I knew what I wanted them to do, the more it annoyed me how long it takes them to do it. It is constantly frustrating every time I log into Cantr to do anything with any character. I'm now down to four characters, and logging in once every two days instead of once every two hours.

I really do wish that something can be done, both to the lag which still remains, and to the less good interface features, that would encourage me to spend time in Cantr again, without feeling I was spending my whole time waiting for pages to load. Sadly, I'm aware that there is not the programming resource available to do any of that, so I suspect that as my involvement wanes due to frustration, and as my love for my characters dwindles as a result, there will come a time when my logging-in becomes so infrequent that I cease to play at all. Whether that will be weeks or months, I don't know. *shrugs sadly*

psymann

[SumBum]

Well, there were massive lag issues and most players dropped during that period right?

Now things seem to run smoothly.

It still amazes me each time I hear this sort of thing...

To add to my post in the type of player thread, since this thread is more appropriate for it:

I doubt I could've counted up to 5 for most page loads lately. The game plays at a comfortable load rate *most* of the time for me. Granted, there was a period several weeks ago that was unbearable, but it's been comparable to other website loads for me lately, and at work I surf on a 1Gb line.

[psymann]

I doubt I could've counted up to 5 for most page loads lately.

I don't want to count to 5. I don't have to count to 5 for any other free browser-based game I play. I don't have to count to 5 for pretty much any website since I got rid of my dial-up connection. I don't want to count to more than about 1 for anything other than the Show All link on the Events page in a busy town. Maybe 2 if there are a really high number of objects or something. But not 5.

Perhaps I'm too demanding. But only Cantr fails to meet my expectations.

psymann

[SumBum]

I said I doubt I could count to 5... Meaning most of the time it's less than 5, usually only a second or two for any page to load. CNN doesn't even load that fast most of the time, even at work.

[saztronic]

I really don't think lag is a serious concern right now. For the most part, pages load instantaneously. There are still occasions -- though rare -- when things slow down considerably, but by and large they seem to be quite temporary, lasting no more than 10 minutes or so before speed returns.

I'd prefer to focus more on psymann's other points, which is that there are inefficiencies in the interface. For example:

If I am deep in a building, I should be able to click "Go outside" and navigate any room changes automatically.

If I am changing the direction of my ship, I ought to be able to see in advance the change in the direction indicator so I don't need to make multiple direction changes. At the very least, after I change direction I shouldn't be shunted back to the EVENTS page, then have to click on Location again to check my bearings, then adjust direction, back to EVENTS, & etc.

There are a variety of small issues like this that add up to make the system a bit frustrating.

I know we lack programmers and those we do have are overworked. I wonder if before we expend a lot of energy trying to attract new players, we should expend some of that energy trying to attract new programmers.

[Chris]

Lag (the 5-minute kind, not the 5-second kind) has been under control recently. I like the recent change in the SQL report that shows when a game process is running. To make it really useful, we should know when the next process is going to run, so we know to log out before it begins. Put those two pieces of info at the top of each page, and I would be happy.

Current process: Name_of_process
Next Process: Name_of_process in X minutes

[PapiSido]

Creating a character without a specific purpose does not have much sense, but I do not have much idea about what purpose I can think of.

That's the major problem of Cantr for me. I still have several characters, but what's the purpose? You can build a state of the art sailing boat. But for what purpose? Sailing to unexplored lands, only to discover the places are exactly like home... only empty or with people you can't communicate with, but who have the same resources as you had at home.

A question !
I'm interested in languages and therefore would be glad to have my language corrected in German and Russian, and that also may be a strong incentive for me to play, let's say in Polish or Dutch.
Conversely I'm ready to offer such help to people wanting to learn French, which means establishing myself as French teacher on the French island.
Two obstacles yet
1/ In some sense that may be a breach of the fundamental law since that would clearly betray these characters as being mine.
2/ Of course I want to help but not to offence anybody, how would that be appreciated by other players?

What do you think ?

[psymann]

PapiSido,

Personally, I'd be happy for one of your characters to make one OOC speech saying something like "I'm trying to learn this language better, please message me if you can correct me to help me learn". As long as all further communication to do with the subject was kept in whispers.

Having lots of public OOC chat about the language would rather detract from the game atmosphere, but if it's done in private in-game messages then they don't appear OOC. That way, anyone willing to help can help, and those not willing to help just see a couple of people whispering a bit - and it would be even better if you can roleplay that you're whispering about something in-character even though you're not really

As for helping other people, I find that it's a risky business. I used to run the university badminton club, and we had various beginners at the club who really had little clue of how to play. For some of them, you could suggest they try something different, and they were really happy to have the advice, and would often ask other questions once they knew you were happy to help, and were keen to have regular coaching and everything. Conversely, a few others would look at you as if you'd just walked up to them and insulted their mother, and make it quite clear that they were perfectly happy being at their current standard, and had absolutely no intention of getting any better, no matter how easy that improvement might be. I suspect it would be the same with language - some are keen to improve but others are highly content with their mediocre literacy. And I'd expect that goes both for those trying to learn a foreign language and those that have a rather poor grasp of their native language.

Actually, in terms of helping to teach French on a French island, if the French are as poor at French as the English are at English (which to be honest I doubt, but don't know), then you might find yourself more often correcting the natives than the foreigners...

psymann

[T-shirt]

PapiSido, maybe some of my character want to learn other languages, but I as their player won't. I don't want to learn French, Portuguese or Polish. And if any of my characters meet a French, Portuguese or Polish character, they can't learn the language they might want to learn. Besides; they might spend years among people who speak another language, for me as a player it's only days.

[psymann]

I was assuming he was talking about people who, for example, were English, but had created a French character on a French island, as an attempt to improve their French (as the home page suggests you could do) rather than talking about meeting foreigners in-game... *shrugs*

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Well, there were massive lag issues and most players dropped during that period right?

Now things seem to run smoothly.

It still amazes me each time I hear this sort of thing...

Mine have been under 1 second for the most part lately, so I'm not sure why yours aren't. A few seconds (3 or less) isn't that long really, and not really that hindering either in the game. If it were more than 10 or 15 seconds a load, it would add up a lot faster and be more annoying. It really doesn't bother me until 20-30 seconds +. Considering past lag of 5 min or more, things are going well.

[DylPickle]

They sure are.
How many torrent downloads do you have running in the back, Psymann?
Someone in my house had about 30 going last night, so I ended up having to keep refreshing cantr from "Page not found" crap.

Other than that, cantr has been flying again, and it's great. I'm even in a couple places where some people talk, and there's actually some advancements in the social and developmental progression of the places.

Now if only the other half of my characters could light up

[west]

I've been telling Jos for years that what this game needs is a complete server wipe, followed by a judicious rolling-back of most of the "improvements" made to the game in the past four years.

For some reason, he doesn't listen

[Cherize]

Yeah, back to the good old days when there wasn't any server lag, but the game did go down for days at a time. Sometimes even travelling backwards in time.

I still say, the problem is that really big island with all of the animals. *runs and hides from Doug*