Religion/Culture

[fallenval]

Reading the Pschyic thing somebody suggested making a new thread. I would like to base this on religion because that is the simplest way in my opinion to make distinct cultures.

One of my big problems with religious Cantr is that it would take forever.
I was wondering if even though it is in general looked down upon to use RL things. I know I hate it when Characters introduce themselves as Bill Gates, or superman. I wonder though if someone should bring RL religions into Cantr. it would make the whole religion transition much easier. (Large possibility this is against some rule)

One of my problems with this (Yes I am contradicting myself) is that if some RL religion gained huge Superiority in Cantr... bad things might happen.

MARK MY WORDS 1. I will get at least one person mad at me 2. I will edit this multiple times.

[Rossato]

I have a church.

[DylPickle]

The whole point of cantr is that societies can emerge that do not exist in real life. When i see "Christianity", "Islam", or even ancient Greco-Roman "Hellenistic" religions is cantr, I'll start making 15 suicidal jackasses at a time, armed with note bombs and machine clogs

People can and do make religions that follow the same general concept as real life religions sometimes, but I've noticed they're not always successful. Plus, in all honesty, there are a lot of westerners that know little to nothing about more than one or two world religions anyways, so really the whole "easier transition" thing wouldn't work too well anyways.

I've found that the best way to get a sense of religion into the game isn't by making a religion, but by following someone else's. I think religion fails in cantr because the people who want it actively in the game the most are usually people who simply want to be at the top of the hierarchy.

[Tiamo]

Introducing a RL religion would be a CRB.

For a religion to arise and prosper in Cantr there must be a good (psychological or sociological) reason for its existence. I can't think of any reason within the game, actually.

In RL those reasons do exist. Belief helps explaining the unknown (from thunder to life itself, and beyond), thereby eliminating a possible feeling of unease or even threat by this unknown. And most churches (not religions, this is not part of the belief) have added morality to the package, trying to help people cope with the challenges of life.

In Cantr there is no 'unknown', life is simple and predictable. The wiki explains it all. Also there is no complex society or 'rules for survival' to be mastered. So religion has no attraction other than the real life example (where religious leadership indeed is a source of power).

Culture is based on choices (our choices and our ancestors'). So, for different cultures to arise and survive, characters should be able to make cultural choices, about the language used, about religion (if any), about folklore, about what clothes to wear, about what food to eat, about which rules to follow.
And societies must be able to impose most of those choices upon the next generation (they know no better, this is how they have learned it!).

The Cantr game system doesn't offer much help in this respect. There is no education of children (there are no children to educate!), all 'science' and 'technology' is known to everybody (so people make an economical choice, not a choice based on tradition) and players can play a lot of different characters at the same time (mixing it all up in the minds of the players).

[Pie]

okies, here i GO!

A quick essay on culture.

first off, what is culture? A culture is a set belif about what one person should whear, say, do, to be socially correct. In real life, culture almost allways extends from religion; morality, sacrifice, guilt, and all those little things some cultures do that bring them together; christmas, easter, birthday presants

but unfortunately in cantr, religion is basically dead. oh no! the reason being? Becaus characters aren't real. They don't have those little phsycological needs that we as humans need, to have everything explained, a caus and effect, and they don't experiance pain or longing. Sure you may feel empathy for them as players, but it only goes so far. Without a major chang in this, or something out there that could possibally prove that there is something greater in cantr, than this just wont be made.

so how do we get culture, when there is no reason to make culture? find another reason of course. So lets look and see what we have.

we have government. ooh ho ho, yes we do. and we have buisness. So how do we get little "cultural phenominon's" from buisness and government?

same way as we would with religion. Someone gets an idea about something we should have, be it war games, boat races, then set up a reason for it, and since we dont have faith, we can allways use the main driving force within cantr: econimy. Make it ecinomically viable, and ecinomically... advancing? that the right word?

So after a few years of someone doing this, of a "culture" doing this, and if the gains outweigh the costs, it will grow exponentially, and then it will become secont nature for everyone who participates in it.

____________-

part 2: everything we need to know about newspawns.

I know you hate them.

this is my main beef with cantr. As we all know i've made hundreds of characters. well... 117 i think it was with this account. most have died. And why? Becaus they weren't paid any attention too. Nobody gave them a chance. I believe that if cantr is going to catch on, that if a "cultural phenominon" is going to grow and expand like it needs to do, than we have to look for the new generations of leaders. Give them something to work on. A goal. something to bind them together. Now, one way to do this is to have war, but since we don't have a military industurial complex, a big government, or men behind the scenes of cantr echinomics, we cant logically start one without reason. and they usually don't happen long enough, or they're to far apart to really effect newspawns.

so what then? if we can't use government to give newspawns something to do, than we have to use the other thing. buisness.

if we can give them something to work towards, to achieve, and if it also happens to help you along with your goals, than it's really a win win situation, isn't it? and we all know that there are buisnesses in cantr. But unfortunately it involves a lot of drudgery and sleeping newspawns doing that drugery. If they're lucky enough to get a job, that is.

but again, if you give them something that's theirs, (actually yours, but they have controll of) give them a mission, then really sleeping sicknes won't be a problem. motivation either. and they will be a part of the cultural phenominon, and it will grow and prosper and we'll have pirates and wars and cantr will be fun again.

now go my minions, do deeds of goodwill and make cantr cool again!

[tiddy ogg]

As stated above, religions are invented to explain the unknown... the sad thing is that most players don't play their chars in a natural way when these unknowns happen.
In how many places was there a reaction when gathering slots were limited/food values changed/new animals were introduced/the recent change to cooking rates.
A couple of my chars tried to explain asome of these as being the work of, not only some supreme beings, but global warming etc, but most chars seem to accept these things unquestioningly. And don't try to figure out the sleeping sickness or a possible cure, by prayer or otherwise, for heart attacks.

[fallenval]

Lots of good stuff in here, So it is a CRB kind of thought that would be so.

Pretty much what I'm thinking right now and as I wrote that post was that Cantr really needs this diverstity and culture. But, everybody looks the same, food can be made anywere and everything that I see about culture in Cantr is impossible except religion.

Cantr needs a religion and the problem with this is that RL religions were made by extremely dedicated groups of people dedicating their life to their religion. People in Cantr don't do that. That's why I was suggesting RL religions to kind of "Jump-Start" the culture of Cantr.

I was wondering would it be a CRB to use parts of religion Ex. serve bread and wine at mass?

[Pilot]

My only religious charrie build a city following the gods designs and the place is known as the paradise on earth, he is the guardian of that paradise.
Animals are sacred, the soil is sacred. No one can attack the animals or will be punished with dead. The blood spilled purifies the fields and calms the gods. When men told my charrie there was no meat left to dry (which coincided with the changes in meat consumption and drying racks) he entered the temple of the food goddess and prayed for guidance and was given the holly bread as reward and he was told by the goddess not to eat dry meat because it became impure.

Simple as that

[fallenval]

That is EXACTLY what Cantr needs now if someone were to spread that religion into a small region... I would consider that culture. Good job. By the way is that in a spanish or english are? Am I allowed to ask that? If not don't answer

[Gran]

If you want religion or culture, try to make it yourself. Usually, a jump-start is just a small tale or cult.

[fallenval]

I might try to make it myself, that is why I was asking about RL Religions because it would take a REALLY long time to make up a whole new religion.

[trexdino]

Well, several religions have worked, and continue going.

And to add to what Pie said about newspawn, in order for a group to be successful in cantr, you need to get the newspawns. Most rl religions wouldnt work in cantr, becuase most of the newspawns are appealed to violence, so in order to get a cantr religion working, you need to appeal to that. Trust me, one of my characters leads an Order.

[Zanthos]

its not that hard, make it up as you go.

Hell, when I first made my religion i messed up what word i used oocly, and just played it off as if there were more aspects to the religion than i knew. (I had Akamada the Mushroom Lord and Akarupa of the Trees). You just have to do something, and make mechanics work for you. Animal attacks could be divinly caused, be it as punishment or teaching lessons. The bounty of the earth can be the god's blessing (which is what started off my religion).

I'll give a little history lesson on my holy man. He was hurt by boar to 80% damage, and harvested mushrooms until he completly healed himself. In this process, he began to believe the mushrooms are magical in nature, and blessed by an overgod, who he named Akamada. It was then which the people in the town questioned his beliefs, and were even outright hostile to them. However, and here is where you gotta make things happen for yourself, the game helpped me out a bit. The person who was most against me was attacked by wild animals within a day of denouncing me, which gave me the opportunity to say the animals follow the god's will. At my height, I had two direct followers, and one of them went off to preach elsewhere (and i learnt oocly after my character's heart attack that he did indeed preach, but i do not know who listened)

To put it shortly, if you put in effort it isnt hard to make a small religion. You are bound to succeed and get at least one convert, provided you dont just copy something.

[trexdino]

Zanthos, I finally understand your signiture.

[joo]

I understand the first part, but not the second part

The idea of using RL religions in Cantr makes me feel sick - the only reason I play Cantr is to engage in an alternate existance - to try to use RL religions would take that away, and cheapen the experience.