What can God never see?

[toon]

I believe the Bible as it says. plain and simple. I trust it more than people saying " This is what the bible might have said or might have meant"...
It's the what we have and i believe God ended up having it how he wanted.

[buddyhall]

Well we are still on the same side here but I don't believe the whole bible to be literal some things are not intended to be taken literal it's the meaning behind the stories that are important to me.

[toon]

The main thing is the main thing. Jesus died for us. The Bible is a book of examples of wht to do and what not to do other than those few parts.

[trexdino]

The Bible has been mistranslated, no matter what version you read. Maybe it wasn't 2 of all animals, maybe just the mammals. And I do believe in Luke: 24, that Jesus was resurrected 3 days after he was killed. If religion was just something for the past, then why are there so many religions today, and some have millions of members. The majority of the world believes in some god, and scienctests mostly just guess and say it is true.

[Dogonabun]

scienctests mostly just guess and say it is true.

Because the scientific method is a load of crap, right?

[toon]

Scientists guess on things that they assume to be true. They havn't found something that goes against it yet. But does that mean that it is right no matter what? no. Meaning it is just an assumtion and there is no way to tell that the statement is right.

[Dogonabun]

Scientists guess on things that they assume to be true. They havn't found something that goes against it yet. But does that mean that it is right no matter what? no. Meaning it is just an assumtion and there is no way to tell that the statement is right.

Gravity exists. When I jump, I fall back down. Proof enough?

[toon]

But when you let go of a ballon filled with helium, it goes up, does that prove that there isn't gravity? no. Neither does you jumping and hitting the ground. because there is an exception to what happens.

[Torkess_theCommie]

maybe moses wasn't the only one with a boat

I thought Noah built the ark.

Scientists guess on things that they assume to be true. They havn't found something that goes against it yet. But does that mean that it is right no matter what? no. Meaning it is just an assumtion and there is no way to tell that the statement is right.

That's why they are called theories. Scientist DO NOT BELIEVE that these 'assumptions' are the TRUTH, that's why they are constantly testing these theories until something new pops up an replaces or alters the original theory.

Do you still believe the Earth is flat?
Reason why the church wants you believe what they tell you is because if someone else disproves them then people begin to lose faith in the church and the church loses power. They WANT you to BELIEVE that everything they say is the TRUTH. The more followers you have, the more power you have.

President Bush wanted people to believe that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. People believed that this was the TRUTH. He gained support to invade/liberate (whatever floats your boat) Iraq. Turns out there were no weapons of mass destruction.

I'm not saying that the Church is evil and Christians are evil and that the Bible is full of lies. Things change. People discover and understand more about the world. What used to be the truth in the Bible may not be the truth anymore.

When you were 6 years old and learning to do math you understood that

1 apple and 1 apple made 2 apples.
1+1=2

If you had 3 apples and ate 2 apples you were left with 1 apple.
3 - 2 = 1

If you had 2 apples and ate 3 apples.... ZOMG WTF IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!!! MY WORLD IS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN!
2 - 3 = ?!?!KJL@JOIDFSLKS HELP ME!

But later on we go into high school or whenever you learn this stuff and suddenly this is true:
2 - 3 = -1

[toon]

Well first of all you couldn't have negative apples
And not all "facts" change. Mothers birth the children, dirt is dirt, and Michael Jackson is a child molestor. There are things that stay the same. But some things you can't be sure of.

[Torkess_theCommie]

Well first of all you couldn't have negative apples

It was just an example :p

You can have negative money though. O__O Money... $_$

[Dogonabun]

Mothers birth the children

Maybe not for long.

[Tiamo]

Science is based upon observation, theory, experiment and logic. Theories are only called 'true' if experiments support them (not once, but again and again), and there is no experience that contradicts the theory.
The balloon rising does not contradict the gravitiy theory, as it can be explained in terms of gases lighter than air in the balloon. Which is another theory itself.

Over time we built a big tree of interconnected theories that (partly) describe our world, and have proven reliable enough to base a lot of technology upon (like chemistry, microelectronics, aerodynamics, etc.). So, for practical use, those theories are 'true' enough, though scientific theory most definitely does NOT describe our whole existence. Neither does it claim to do.

Belief starts where science ends (and yes, this boundary does move). There was a time that people didn't understand thunder, but did fear it. To cope with the fear they made up an explanation: it is the sound of a god on a cart passing by in the sky. This would make the thunder less fearsome. Belief helped coping with the unknown.

So, religion served a useful purpose. I think the current religions still do, albeit on another level of abstraction. They still help people with an explanation of the unknown (existence itself, what happens 'next', etc.), and help people with a ready-to-use ethical system, all written down in a 2000-year old book (more or less, depending on the religion).

Unfortunately those books are now somewhat outdated, as science has progressed considerably. So, some statements in the bible, the koran, the thora and whatever other books are coveted, are proven to be WRONG. Earth is not flat, the earth circles around the sun, not the other way around, there has not been a worldwide flood, earth is way older than 6000 years, etc. Most religious people acknowledge this, and just ignore the imperfections.
Those books also are outdated in the ethical advice they give. This however is a way more controversial point. The books were written in a time when technology was restricted, and the environment posed some serious challenges. Life was not easy, and depended upon some much-needed societal behaviour. Like protecting the women and children to a large extent, use of the (on average) greater strength (and expendibility!) of the men, being careful with what you eat, wearing protective clothing against the sun and a thousand more.
However, our society has evolved and the main challenges of those times are not important any more in our time. Men and women do not need to have wholly separate tasks any more, there is room for a free choice, life is not threatened by too many deaths any more, but rather by too many births, diseases and food poisoning are not a big problem any more, they can be treated quite easily, outside desert areas there is really no need for wearing a veil or even a burqa. Today's society needs other ethics than the classic society the holy books are based upon.

Unfortunately most muslims, christians, jews and other religious people do not have the flexibility to adjust their beliefs to the new reality of life.

There still is room for religion in our world, and apparently many people still feel the need for it, but it should in my opinion be restricted to those areas of existence that are still unexplained, still open for 'creative thinking'.

[formerly known as hf]

Scientists are not so arrogant enough that they believe they have the definitive, final, truth (many would agree that no such thing exists, or can even be known).

Theories change, shift, and adapt to new knowledge, new observation and new experience.

But you're all wrong anyway. The Invisible Pink Unicorn blessed us all by brining this universe into existence, and teaches us through the wisdom of the teapot in orbit half-way between Earth and Mars. I kmnow it's true. Because it's written. On the Internet. The holiest of all texts.

[toon]

Welll HF you can believe that but there is no exact way to prove that the world is a certain age. there is now way to prove that there hasn't been a worldwide flood. I believe it has happened, but you don't have to.