Economy

[Piscator]

Yes, that's a point I noticed, too. In order to get a flow of goods (in other words trade and an economy) you need, like in an electric circuit, a positive and a negative pole. Cantr has at the moment almost exclusively a positive pole. Goods can be produced, but they get hardly ever consumed. Sooner or later every market will be saturated (probably sooner in case population levels keep decreasing) and the whole economy will be based solely on food (and the reproduction of occasionally decaying tools).

[Dogonabun]

Yes, that's a point I noticed, too. In order to get a flow of goods (in other words trade and an economy) you need, like in an electric circuit, a positive and a negative pole. Cantr has at the moment almost exclusively a positive pole. Goods can be produced, but they get hardly ever consumed. Sooner or later every market will be saturated (probably sooner in case population levels keep decreasing) and the whole economy will be based solely on food (and the reproduction of occasionally decaying tools).

Kind of an ominous thought

[Piscator]

How do you mean that?

[Dogonabun]

That the economy would get so saturated that only food mattered?

[SekoETC]

Woah, I never thought about that! We can get rid of clothing by burying them with the corpses, that creates some market, but if people take clothes from corpses and don't get killed over it then clothes are forever. Buildings are forever and now that they can be renamed, they are also more easily transfered to a new owner. And there's been plans of making dinghies and darters dockable, that would make it possible to gather any vehicle there is, just as long as they are not lost in the middle of the sea. Tools can be repaired endlessly... So that we have production and a market is solely due to people hogging things to themselves and sleeping on them / keeping them in locked storages.

Here's an idea for the next statistics:
1) Number of iron shields in buildings/vehicles vs. number of iron shields in inventories.
2) Number of people holding a certain number of iron shields, starting from 1.

This would reveal the extent of HOGGING.

[Tiamo]

The solution is simple: there should be more consumption.
Not only should ALL food reserves, tools, machines, clothes, vehicles, buildings, etc. decay over time and upon utilization (i thought this already happened, but apparently not...), but also characters will have to consume things for other reasons than nourishment. People need shelter, protection from weather and cold/heat, a feel of safety, social acceptance, recreation, a feel of usefulness, etc.
Wearing clothes could be a necessity if you want to live in good health within a building (and fashion would force creating new clothes every few years). Characters could be feeling well by giving and receiving 'gifts'. They are otherwise useless items, that will be valueless upon having given them away.
Recreation also gives numerous opportunities for consumption of items (music, dance, arts, games, use of human energy, excess eating & drinking). Recreation is needed every once in a while so you can work harder and more concentrated. It also relieves the need for social interaction.
I think a lot of consumption can be introduced along those lines, preferably attached to a 'higher' standard of living (the use of buildings, mechanized items, etc.).

And how about introducing the trash pile, the possibility of just throwing things away?
By the way, can boats be sunk (hehe ), vehicles and buildings be demolished, items be broken?

[SekoETC]

It would be kinda cool if you could put someone on a funeral pyre with all their stuff, or how about smashing someone's shield after their death, since people seem so reluctant to give stuff to newspawns unless they prove themselves.

[Chris Johnson]

Yes, that's a point I noticed, too. In order to get a flow of goods (in other words trade and an economy) you need, like in an electric circuit, a positive and a negative pole. Cantr has at the moment almost exclusively a positive pole. Goods can be produced, but they get hardly ever consumed. Sooner or later every market will be saturated (probably sooner in case population levels keep decreasing) and the whole economy will be based solely on food (and the reproduction of occasionally decaying tools).

Which of course was one the main reasons item decay was introduced, to avoid this effect, however item decay has now been set at such low levels its unlikely to have any significant impact on this problem .

[Piscator]

I'm not sure how item decay could solve the problem unless some resources would be needed for it. With the current system the only thing you have to invest is time. (OK, letting people repair your items for food is some kind of economy, too, but it hardly encourages trade) Increasing the decay rates would change nothing basically. It would just make the game a little more hectic.

[Tiamo]

Item decay certainly prevents hoarding. The time people have for repair is limited, so they will be able to preserve a limited amount of items by repeated repairs. If not only the small items would decay, but also the bigger ones (vehicles, buildings, machines) it would take some organising to take care of the food supply while at the same time preserving all available/necessary items.

Also, when repairing of more advanced/comlex items would in the long run take more time than making new items (in fact this is quite realistic), there will come a time that new resources are wanted.

Decay cannot create a thriving economy on its own, but it will certaily help. It is hard to overcome the abundance of raw resources in the game.

[Missy]

There is economy in Cantr. Just because it's not China IC. Or because you think a "little" economy is litte, it doesn't mean that there is "no" economy. Even BAD economy is still economy.

[sanchez]

This is the motivation for expendable luxuries like vehicle fuel.

The only consumables we have (save rot which imo has failed to help anything) are foods, and only healing or maybe energy foods have any value in trade. I'd like to see recycling of tools and weapons.

[Missy]

The reason why economies suck, are because players are self absorbed. They're too worried about building their "own" things instead of working for a greater cause or helping the town which a player can clearly see is struggling, to better itself. No. Why? Because the players want to become famous for being the worst pirate or for starting the longest lasting religion. They don't want to uptake a dying religion in some town because then it wouldnt be their "own." It would always be someone elses.

I still don't see the point in repairs. Sure it would be nice if people weren't selfish because then they might work. But they're not going to work because you're only a rich guy if you have the biggest pile of hammers. Repairs decrease that wealth. For the time it took you to repair four hammers you could have been working on your fifth and sixth hammer whether you really needed them or not. THAT is how the Cantr world works IMO. Implementing repairs because you have a clog of junk in the database and because you think the economy is shitty IC just because it doesn't replicate a real life master powerhouse economy doesn't even make sense.


Things that DO make economy? Are senseless items. Like the new clothing types. The new materials for entirely different clothes. Beer. Characters want their hands on resources that are rare. And there's characters out there who would pay those EXTRA grams you were all talking about? For them. I have chars that would pay out the ass for Barley and chars that would pay out the ass for gold. And chars that would pay out the ass for marble. But too many people are off running around saying "I AM GOD!" And I want to "Buld my own radio." And "I want to be off at sea where I can build my own little world"

My own, my own, my own, my own....

[Newguy]

yeah... all those selfish people. why not make a few extra charries that just be regular people and join a town and help build it. then one or two could be famous while there is still a general populous? That's what I thought 15 charries was for.

[Voltenion]

Funny...You guys are talking here about everything we talked about in PT forum some days ago...Must be the GMT hours or wharever

Well, yes. We have 15 charries, why do we have to make them all crazy?! I mean, equalize things. Make 1 to help, another to de-help, another to be a leader, another just to be a simple slave... It's like Missy says, cantr players only what to be the next Hobbes and they spend all their energy and all their charries to at least have one of them imortal... There are simple people in life too so...Err...that's it......

(no sign this time, I didn't like this post )