Interesting, depressing estimates

[Sekar]

Sometimes increasing skills is necessary though, and the game makes it very hard to do it.

[Yo_Yo]

Screw increasing skills. That totally doesn't matter. What matters to people is that their scrawny little character can't hunt good while he lives in food rich field town, or because their character isn't an expert fighter, when most of the only fighting anyone will do in their lives is beating down a locked up theif (AND when do you see thieves nowadays? Fucking never.)

The skill system doesn't work because the players don't let it work. I bet 90% of the people out there have the whole "well I've a novice at this so I should do it constantly until I get better" attitude when they really should be exploiting their strengths instead, regardless of what they are. Should that be a concrete RULE? Hell no, but it sure should be a realistic general fact right? "Oh, but digging stone is so boring!" Yeah. Like hunting a towns 11 species of animals on a daily basis, glogging up the events screen and filling public storages with mountains of small bones is SO much more damn fun.

Cantr's economy is broken for the same reason. The general free labour kills the economy. The lack of real PROPERTY (owning of resource sources/restricting of resources/land) kills the economy. The lack of SPECIALIZATION and professionalism, mainly due to player negligence of the FUNCTIONAL skills system kills the economy. The economical aspect of the game is destroyed due to the players inability to accept anything other than the bland old pseudo-functioning status quo.

The political and ideological aspects of cantr are fading by the minute. With the exceptions of some lasting unique "civilizations" (ie the Stone Knights, the MacGregor Clan, Order of the Donii, etc) Most locales are EXACTLY the same. This wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't nearly impossible to get something TRULY different, societal-wise, nowadays. It's because of the players that different, unique, and interesting (also sometimes very twisted) societies never ever exist. They never even have a chance, simply because newspawns who haven't lived a truly conscious day of life already have a base set of values and ideologies. An undebatable player error.

Also, if an extremely interesting and new society were to emerge, there would be a near zero chance of any spread of values and idealogies to the dry, monotonous run-of-the-mill neighbouring towns.

I could go on but I'm sick of writing and can't imagine how sick of reading I'd be right now if I were on the other side of the.. er.. internet. But in essence, cantr is dying because of the players. Not the out of character rules. The core of the game is all the different fields of roleplay one can enter in to, the conflicts and interactions between people, groups, cities, nations, continents, (and language groups, though I believe language groups should be spaced even further away from eachother). We players are the ones that are destroying cantr through our retarded closed minded view of things.

I'm done. Peace.

So what you're saying is, anyone ever with a weak point has never and should never train that aspect to become better at it? So if I go into a factory job where I assemble toys, I shouldn't try my hardest and practice to increase my productivity? I should give up and try something else?

I think your outlook on the situation is wrong. If I do practice at something, I should become better at it. And I don't expect to go from terrible to the next Bruce Lee. But any progress would be exceptionally great. And it's good news for your toons that all you have to kill are thiefs. My toons aren't so lucky. The region my toon is in goes from one threat to the next. Who knows when I'll have to try and protect loved ones.

I can't wait for that day. I've been practicing every day for three years. And when that threat comes, and I get my shot to end a conflict that can help save friends lives.... I just get excited knowing my hit will do one of two things. Miss, or do so little damage the wooden shield he grabbed from some newspawn will absorbe all the damage.

[N-Aldwitch]

Three Key Changes we all appear to agree on:

1) Changing Speed of Game, but NOT speed of fighting (reasonable!)

2) Skill should increase faster

3) Game way too complex now.



To extend on point three, this means:

Now if I want to make a shield, I have to go out and grab hemitite, crush it on a table (I have to make one if there isn't one around) with a hammer. Then I have to smelt the iron ore. Then I can finnaly make my shield after probably two and a half years. And don't worry about making weapons anymore. It takes too long and too many resources. It is much more efficient to just steal a weapon or wait for someone to die thats holding one.

[tiddy ogg]

I can't see general agreement with any of those. Shields are now easier than they once were. Don't even need an anvil. I, personally don't like having to make weapons in several stages, but this, I guess, is to try to create co-operation, and specialisation.
The argument about skills has gone on forever, and to pick up on the example of toymaking... if you found you were lousy at it, you'd leave or be thrown out. Face it, if you're naturally awkward at anything, you'll never be more than adequate, in RL or Cantr, so live with it.

As for speed... well, those of us who can be online frequently obviously would like that, but the game is advertised as a slow paced one, and again, though I would myself like a requirement that everyone must log in daily, this will exclude a lot of players... and the whole point of this thread is to try to find ways of encouraging more.

[Phalynx]

Never forget, the CR now favours older players who frankly through 15 characters running over the years combined with the forums are laughing.

Rules about posting maps and geography are unfair because older players know fine well where to find anything, newer players do not.

The decision to allow people to use such information falsely to ruin the game should have nothing to do with how long you have been playing. Those most likely to knowingly abuse this info are well able to do so, I recall a certain 'Cantr Maps' Yahoo group for example!

[Yo_Yo]

The argument about skills has gone on forever, and to pick up on the example of toymaking... if you found you were lousy at it, you'd leave or be thrown out. Face it, if you're naturally awkward at anything, you'll never be more than adequate, in RL or Cantr, so live with it..

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't want my toon to go from terrible to Bruce Lee. I want him to go from terrible to competent. I don't want to miss every time I try and hit something. I don't want someone with a bone shield be able to absorbe my entire hit when I do strike, even when i'm wielding a claymore. And I'd love to get a bit beter with my shield.

I'm just asking for middle of the road instead of 6 feet under. I think thats all anyone is asking for. And I still can't understand why no one is agreeing that if you practice at something, you should get better. Did you walk into your job and be the best you could be on day one? No. Most likely you had to work at it to get better.

It's like i'm talking to non-voilent pacifistic walls.

[sanchez]

Yo-yo, afaik missing is random and not tied to skill.

Fighting skill does seem to be the biggest problem for people, so maybe if the difference between expert and awkward were lowered, that would help. I have a char who's finally reached expert at 57, after a lifetime of sparring, though not every day. She started out skillful.

[SekoETC]

I would rather have it so that everyone would have a chance of dealing high and low damage. IRL a skilled person could even kill someone with chopsticks. Too much relies on technology. Even if you managed to make a bone knife in jail, there's practically 0% chance that you could kill or disable the guard and take their keys. Everything is so strict.

[Missy]

Never forget, the CR now favours older players who frankly through 15 characters running over the years combined with the forums are laughing.

Rules about posting maps and geography are unfair because older players know fine well where to find anything, newer players do not.

The decision to allow people to use such information falsely to ruin the game should have nothing to do with how long you have been playing. Those most likely to knowingly abuse this info are well able to do so, I recall a certain 'Cantr Maps' Yahoo group for example!

You have this twisted way of twisting everything to make it look like you're the wronged and that everyone's out to get you and a bad habit of saying what you think as "fact," it's really irritating.

I've been playing since at least 100s, and I STILL do not know my way around the Cantr islands. Especially since they decided to make the roads that you have to name them. I don't personally see how posting a visual map of those sorts of things could bother what any player knows, since if you're a newspawn, you still have to pick up a map and figure out what roads are what....And it's the reading of whether a road is "north-north-east" that helps anybody. The only thing a visual map on here would aid, is those who are sailors. Sailing, something that I don't do very much of with my characters. And then those who have "mappers" and "explorers" trying to figure out which way a map should look.

As far as older-players knowing where to find everything, we had to pick up the maps and rename the roads just like everybody else. And when i want something that I don't commonly have someone out getting for me/something I rarely work with, I still have to pick up the map to figure out where it is, and what route I'd want to take to get there. That's not some advantage over any new player. Seeing as they could learn what's close to their character just as well as I know it, if they care to learn where things are for that character. Care to learn whats accessable to them. For example in Siom I know where coal, limestone, hematite, rubber and wood are. Everything else, I still must dig out my map and say...You need to go "here. here. and then down this road."

In Doryiskom, I know where limestone and wood are. I only just recently memorized the route that I don't have to pull out a map anymore to get there with that character who is some fifty some years old-----Yet I've got a character who is late 80's that lived in Akypor all his life and still doesn't know where the fuck he is in relative to anything, he's only recently named roads as he and a companion decided to travel far and abroad.

So basically what you're saying to me is, just because I've been here longer, and I already know things with certain characters, that a newspawn should be able to know that stuff without having to go through the bothers that I had to go through? That's what you're making it sound like to me.

[Phalynx]

Never forget, the CR now favours older players who frankly through 15 characters running over the years combined with the forums are laughing.

Rules about posting maps and geography are unfair because older players know fine well where to find anything, newer players do not.

The decision to allow people to use such information falsely to ruin the game should have nothing to do with how long you have been playing. Those most likely to knowingly abuse this info are well able to do so, I recall a certain 'Cantr Maps' Yahoo group for example!

You have this twisted way of twisting everything to make it look like you're the wronged and that everyone's out to get you and a bad habit of saying what you think as "fact," it's really irritating.

I've been playing since at least 100s, and I STILL do not know my way around the Cantr islands. Especially since they decided to make the roads that you have to name them. I don't personally see how posting a visual map of those sorts of things could bother what any player knows, since if you're a newspawn, you still have to pick up a map and figure out what roads are what....And it's the reading of whether a road is "north-north-east" that helps anybody. The only thing a visual map on here would aid, is those who are sailors. Sailing, something that I don't do very much of with my characters. And then those who have "mappers" and "explorers" trying to figure out which way a map should look.

As far as older-players knowing where to find everything, we had to pick up the maps and rename the roads just like everybody else. And when i want something that I don't commonly have someone out getting for me/something I rarely work with, I still have to pick up the map to figure out where it is, and what route I'd want to take to get there. That's not some advantage over any new player. Seeing as they could learn what's close to their character just as well as I know it, if they care to learn where things are for that character. Care to learn whats accessable to them. For example in Siom I know where coal, limestone, hematite, rubber and wood are. Everything else, I still must dig out my map and say...You need to go "here. here. and then down this road."

In Doryiskom, I know where limestone and wood are. I only just recently memorized the route that I don't have to pull out a map anymore to get there with that character who is some fifty some years old-----Yet I've got a character who is late 80's that lived in Akypor all his life and still doesn't know where the fuck he is in relative to anything, he's only recently named roads as he and a companion decided to travel far and abroad.

So basically what you're saying to me is, just because I've been here longer, and I already know things with certain characters, that a newspawn should be able to know that stuff without having to go through the bothers that I had to go through? That's what you're making it sound like to me.

The thing is I have played this game for 2 1/2 years now so I am not talking about me being the loser.
I'm not a fastidious player. I have unsubbed now but when I did play I played for RP rather than being a resources man. But it's a simple as this. If you were playing and once character had Treefeather and the other didn't you would be expected to make the character who didn't explore or ask for resources. Except that we after playing for a while that knowledge becomes imbedded.
I had a character spawn and my incilination was to find somewhere decent for this character (expert fighter, stronger than average etc.) to settle. I didn't break the rules technically. My character found a note outlining the clan MacGreggor said this looks interesting and headed off to (Geographical detail removed ) to become a MacGreggor. Nothing wrong with that except that as an older player with two MacGreggors under my belt before I know what that means and the benefits of RPing in such a setting.
A new player doesn't know the geography of the region they spawn in or the benefits of living in Djorf, the curse that is Dory etc. etc. Old players have that knowledge coming out of their ears. I see it as similar to the Wikki in that when I was new I was forever checking stuff but now have very little call to use it. I think a lot of the same could be said for geographical knowledge. Newer players simply are not in the position to misuse basic info in the same way as older players.

[Yo_Yo]

Finnaly some responses that make sense! While I agree Seko that someone in jail basicly has no option to spring themselves, I don't honestly see a way to code a change. There is no suprise element to fighting (The game automaticly trys to block for you since people can't log in every hour). I wish there were more fighting options to this game (Example, Akido for a defensive type fighter without the means to grab weapons) but this game evidently has a large fan base opposed to fighting.

Which doesn't make sense in a sociological experiment, like cantr. Fighting is human (And animal) nature. Why then, do so many oppose it in a game where toons are suppose to live based on thier enviroments? I know my toon, for a fact was raised in a society that praises fighting. But my toon has been forced into becoming something un-common in his enviroment. And when he trys to adapt, and fit in he fails miserably.

And grats Sanchez. I can only gope it doesn't take my toon as many years as it took yours to reach a compitent level of fighting. Also, it is a little disheartening to hear that missing isn't tied into a skill level.

[MakeBeliever]

Edit - Players are not always aware of the "facts" behind certain characters and events while staff are always able to see things other players cannot. While a player may believe one thing, the truth can be different completely different. Assumptions can easily be made by those not able to see the facts behind them. Either way cases are not to be discussed on the open forums. This thread is not about pd corruption nor specific cases regarding it. The GAB is and has been investigating and handling the issue.

[MakeBeliever]

This thread may not be about staff abuse, but you whipped my other to be hidden from view. So where do you expect me to speak about things.?? And this is nothing to do with what i believe i simply placed "Facts" from what i was told.

You take facts already investigated by the GAB and hide them to cover up staff abuse yet again here....

Again you wipe off "Facts" about abuse when no characters where named, no ingame details where named. how is that worthy of being edited.

[Arlequin]

It's funny how much time there's available to rant and how little to RP.

[DylPickle]

Never forget, the CR now favours older players who frankly through 15 characters running over the years combined with the forums are laughing.

Rules about posting maps and geography are unfair because older players know fine well where to find anything, newer players do not.

The decision to allow people to use such information falsely to ruin the game should have nothing to do with how long you have been playing. Those most likely to knowingly abuse this info are well able to do so, I recall a certain 'Cantr Maps' Yahoo group for example!

The whole point is to play the game like you don't know, until your char learns. Anyone who doesn't is a damn cheater and should be flogged. I can think of about ten names, but I won't be more of a dick.

EDIT:

It's funny how much time there's available to rant and how little to RP.

haha, so so true.