The End of the Alexian Empire

[David]

Rome devolved from a Republic into an Empire (Like America is, heh, I joke, but is possible), it wasn't as if suddenly "woohps there are no freedoms now" The bedrock of the Roman Empire in the beginning was the small independent farmer, eventually huge Latifundias or collective farms developed, the small independent farmer went to the city etc... or essentially became a serf of the collective farm. The people of the "older" provinces were considered "Romanized" had a less draconian way of living than the people in say, Judea or Gaul, who were treated with less respect. In Lad it was the opposite, the periphery was more easy going and the center was very stringent. People owned land and served in the military to protect their community and land which they already had a vested interest in, not a promisory note. The Republic laid the groundwork for the Empire and the Empire rotted, for a variety of reasons. One of which was the diminishing of the quality of the guard due to people not feeling "vested" because of a small elite group grabbed everything up, where before there were small farms, and the use of Mercenaries from places such as Germania.

I had a similar experience with a character awhile back that Anthony did, he was sucked into the Warehouse and kept asking to join other departments... to no avail, even through proper channels. You can't just say, well the system wasn't working because directives weren't being followed, what's on a piece of paper isn't the system, its a piece of paper. The system is what actually took place. If Hawthorne couldn't correct or lead his system the way he wanted it to be, than that is on him for no "quality control" , a bad workman blames his tools. joking.

[rklenseth]

Yes, it is always pointed out that America is taking the same path that Rome did. I see where the connections are. But the only thing is that I believe we haven't actually grown into a full fledged empire yet so we haven't reached our highest point yet so all this gibberish from Europe that America is about to fall is null if you believe in this theory.

[David]

Erm... the Roman Empire lasted for quite some time. America has had an Empire for at least 100 years, if you count continental conquests even longer than that. The difference is that America's Empire hasn't entirely dictated and dominated America's domestic Republic. I am not making some diagnoses of how long America will be around, the fact is that America has had an Empire for quite some time. Where the American Empire is headed can be theorized by someone with more knowledge than I have. In many cases and informal empire, but an empire none the less. Where it will be in 100 years? I have no idea.

It's hard enough describing History and the Present let alone divining the future.

I wouldn't say that the path is the same as Rome, I would say that the populace at least has to come to terms with the fact that America does in fact have an empire, and has had one for quite some time. If the American populace finds that its empire does not gel with its values, then perhaps it may decide to jettison its empire, but with a majority of people believing in the fiction that America has no empire to begin with... what can you do?

[nitefyre]

empire- A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority. [MBE]

The United States home continental territory, is of course the continental US+Alaska/Hawaii. I'm assuming by empire you are incorporating Guam+Mariana's, Puerto Rico, Virgin Isles, and what ever military United States territory that is loaned to the USDOD[Japan(Okinawa), South Korea(2nd ID),Germany (V Corps), Italy, Turkey, Kuwait and the WOT gains in Iraq, Afghanistan] and such embassies. Or are you taking this in the economic sense that the US has an empire?

[rklenseth]

But is there a supreme authority? We have the federal government, then all the state governments, and then all of the thousands of local governments. So there doesn't seem to be a supreme authority since the state government can override the federal government and the local government can override the state government.

You can claim the territorial argument but we did allow Cuba to leave these United States and Puerto Rico can leave if they weren't to busy soaking up all of the American benefits without paying a dime for it.

In fact, a state could leave the Union. There is a long process that it would have to go through in order to do so, though.

Now this gets me wondering. Some of the Iraqi Interim Government have shown interest in joining the US as the 51st state (not going to happen in my opinion). But lets say they actually get a majority of the Iraqis to want that and they petition the US to make it so. Now the US would have to refuse because it would make us look bad and imperialistic which is what we are trying to stay away from. So if the Iraqis wanted Iraq to become the 51st US state would we refuse and would that be the right thing to do?

[nitefyre]

Thats what I was getting at, it can't theoretically be called an "empire" via definition. Its better off calling it a union which is second to none in benefitting its friends. *coughs* With all that financial support of turkey, and still they didn't help in Iraqi Freedom.

The Iraqi's would never want to become our 51st state, and the right thing to do, is to support them like we do the rest of the freeworld. Though I think it flawed to just keep spednin away dollars like that, some constraint cap must be put on that, more so than in the MLB. Foreign policy aide must be completely revamped in spending and supporting our so-called allies.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

If America's going to fall during my lifetime, it better not be too soon o_o; I still don't have the military capabilities to take advantage of the aftermath o.o;;;;;;

[Meh]

Empires don't fall they just fade away.

[ephiroll]

I had a similar experience with a character awhile back that Anthony did, he was sucked into the Warehouse and kept asking to join other departments... to no avail, even through proper channels. You can't just say, well the system wasn't working because directives weren't being followed, what's on a piece of paper isn't the system, its a piece of paper. The system is what actually took place. If Hawthorne couldn't correct or lead his system the way he wanted it to be, than that is on him for no "quality control" , a bad workman blames his tools. joking.

Ha...I think I see what's been going on for a while now then...because Hawthorne never heard about any of these problems, he was always told that the people had little interest in doing anything else, and he had no reason to disbelieve what his adviors were telling him. Otherwise the problem would've been taken care of...this just keeps getting more and more ironic, the people that caused the workers situation is the people they are probly unknowlingly flocking to right now.

[nitefyre]

Poor emperor-no one following what he wants. Perhaps, its time to put fear in those power jocks. May I suggest my inquistional abilities? *takes out his French revolution guillotine, and some whips*

::yes I know they didn't have guillotines during the RCC inquisition::

[ephiroll]

To late now...only question now is if the people left can survive whatever revenge is coming their way, I bet the conspirators in Lad never thought about that...I also wonder if maybe those conspirators were used as tools by someone, after all, divide and conquer.

[kroner]

ooh, the plot thickens...

[Bran-Muffin]

The people who took out gartaff are well off i say, no one (except my char and one other) knows IC yet that he has been killed and some other things are taking place around that area. Soon i think the gartaf killers will be a force to reckon with, anyway enough of my babble. I just felt like saying that.

[nitefyre]

Well umm, yeah. Poor Naron and those who dunno.

[ephiroll]

Yeah...lotta interesting stuff to come...