Multitool

[bobbogum]

Ok, I did i search on this but came up with no
results, so.. how about a Multitool that includes a knife, a file, pliers, scisors, and it uses things like wood rubber, steel, Iron,bone, bone (decretive)

So what do ya think?

[Doug R.]

In the real world, the trade off between a proper tool and a multi tool like a Swiss army knife is that the multitool is much more inefficient. Since tool efficiency isn't an aspect of Cantr, this isn't something that that could be implemented without upsetting the game balance, unless, of course, you make it considerably more expensive than the sum of all the tools combined and make the trade off be the fact that you only need one tool to carry and repair (although even then it would upset game balance, since construction costs are one-time things while rot is constant).

[Talapus]

With the current database driven object code, it is impossible to do what you have outlined. A tool can only act as a single tool (You might be able to achieve this through a hard coded object, but we try to avoid those now days).

[Phalynx]

Still, a good idea even if it's not practical!

[Doug R.]

With the current database driven object code, it is impossible to do what you have outlined. A tool can only act as a single tool (You might be able to achieve this through a hard coded object, but we try to avoid those now days).

Not really impossible. You'd simply have to add the multitool to every project that uses one of the tools contained in the multitool, i.e. project cutting cotton cloth, requires scissors or multitool. project slicing tomatoes, requires bone knife or knife or multitool.

Regardless, it would be too disruptive to balance.

[shapukas]

And what about tool box? It could require som materials, and allso the resourses that needs for good tools. So it would consist of Sqrewdriver, wrench and some of tghe others. There could be some blacksmith tool kit, tailors tool kit. If only it could be done in program. For manufacturing something you could use single tools or tool kit. Could it be posibble to implement? By my suggestion tools from tool kits coudnt be reveald/retreaved.

[Rossato]

i like shapuskas´ idea.

[SekoETC]

There is no "or" option for projects, there would have to be two different entries altogether, one using the multitool and one using several different tools. I think this is a bit of a design flaw. Projects to make items are not defined separately but in the same page with the item. When logically there should be one items database that only includes things like id, weight, deterioration settings etc. and a manufacturing table that has project requirements, time and other settings. Then it would be possible to define several projects that produce the same item instead of having items with the same name and being otherwise identical exept that they were produced in different ways. Production doesn't matter once the item has been finished.

shapukas, it doesn't sound logical that people couldn't separate tools from the tool kit once it has been made. Think about it, you would have a sword smithing kit that has peen hammer, set hammer, flatter, sledge hammer and chisel. Now what if you wanted to use one of those on a project that doesn't require the other four? It would only work if RD had gone through all the trouble of allowing the other options, and that's not possible with the current mechanics unless you create new project entries on the list. So you would have item (toolset) and item (old version). The only plus side of having such kit would be that it would be fast to pick up, drop and hand to other people. And that's covered by the suggestion of putting items into containers or my earlier suggestion of grouping tools into an abstract "package".

I think it would be nice if tools could be defined like (hammer OR stone hammer) AND (needle OR bone needle). Or maybe even time:x;tools:hammer||(stone hammer&&time+=0.5). You just can't do that because it would interpret time as a tool. Maybe key words could be uppercase. Or if this was a real developer friendly game then people wouldn't even have to write requirement lines in a specific format, it would be the system that transforms the selections into a string that's stored in the database but the RD person creating the project would see something like what they use for putting multiple items into stash in Kingdom of Loathing, with the exception that instead of items in your inventory it would have all the tools that are currently available in the game. This would eliminate the chance of typos. But I know no one is going to bother writing it because people can just check the syntax in sticky topics so I'm not starting a new topic for this.

[Talapus]

Seko has it right. In the project requirements you get to list a string of tools. The Project then requires all of these tools. The way we can do "knife or bone knife" is that we give them the same database. So the identity name of the bone knife is "knife". So if we made a multi-tool (without making a duplicate of all the projects that could use one), then the multi-tool's identity name would have to be all of the tools, and you can't do that.

The way we can have different gathering rates for tools with the same identity name, is the gathering rates looks at a different name entry in the project. All in all, I think you have to specify the name in four or five different places when designing an object (projects have their own list of names, but it is a little bit smaller).