Animals Critical to Culture/Survival

[N-Aldwitch]

Doug, this isn't an attack on you, you do a really great job so don't see it this way.

But I hate it how the Cantr staff have gotten you on board to basically 'cheat' and add animals to areas that don't have many, and remove them from other areas. This is Cantr, not RL, as so many countless oldbies seem to reinforce. Meaning, it is normal for there to be abnormal amounts of animals in particular areas as it's not supposed to simulate real life.

It's really great how the pelicans are extinct from Kwor. Honestly... I remember, when I was advertising this game to people, I used to brag about the sheer amount of power each player has.
They can quite literally (with a team of others of course) cause an animal on Cantr to become extinct in either their town, their area or even their continent (or island).

It seems we've lost that ability now! It's such a shame to not be able to wipe out a particular animal species without a (great) staff member replacing them. It just doesn't seem right...

I was looking over the replies to this topic, and it seems no one holds this view. Does someone who hasn't posted hold this view? Or someone who has posted?

Doug, again, can I please emphasise that you are such an enthusiastic and fantastic staff member, you always consult us first, you make huge posts about your plans, it's exciting replying to your posts.
So this is far from an attack on you. (yes, a strange statement coming from me)

[robin_waw]

W górnej części Fic w okolicach Monologrodu, pojawiły się niedawno konie, i to jest super, jest tam miejsce które nazywa się "Szopia knieja", niestety ostatniego szopa w tamtych okolicach widziałem bardzo dawno. Miło by było gdyby oprócz tych koników które się pojawiły, znalazły się tam inne gatunki.
Na plażach mogły by pojawić się małże, perłopławy, kraby, homary. W lokacjach nad wodą i przylegających, mewy, albatrosy, fregaty, te ostatnie dobrze by było gdyby pojawiały się podczas podróży statkami. W Edenie na Erlan krowy muszą zostać swego czasu były nawet uważane za święte ale gdy stado powiększyło się powyżej 80 sztuk stały się jedynym gatunkiem na który można polować i ostatni spadek ilości tych zwierząt mam nadzieję że nie jest spowodowany zmianami w kodzie gry.

P.S. proszę LD o przetłumaczenie (translate please)

[N-Aldwitch]

To add to this, nowdays there is no point to having a number of animals, besides for dictating the chance of attack on a character.

[Doug R.]

N-Aldwitch:

Thanks for your compliments. I understand your concerns. Let me explain how I see things to give you some insight into my actions.

First, I agree with you 100%. Players should be able to extinct species.

However, the animal system is horribly imbalanced. Bugs wiped out swaths of animals in the Polish region, and the majority of animal types have been in steady decline for RL years simply because their reproductive rates were too low. Dogs, crocs, and wolves being the best examples of this. Meanwhile, a minority of animals had reproductive rates that were too high and their populations skyrocketed, giving the impression that things were alright while the other species gradually disappeared. These minority of overpopulated animals also contributed to the decline of other animals, as their overcrowded populations caused all animals to migrate away and age more quickly.

Players should be able to extinct species, but they shouldn't be helped by the game. It's not fair to the players. Having animal diversity makes things more interesting, and an interesting game should be more fun (in theory).

My long-term goal is the following:

1) The addition of new species and the reduction of over-used species.

One of the key causes of imbalance is animals that are simultaneously populating islands both inhabited and uninhabited by players. As I only get animal growth data on a global scale, increases in animal populations on deserted islands mask declines of the same species on character-populated islands. Therefore, I deem a population to be healthy when in fact they are not. Even if I realize this, increasing the reproduction rate only serves to rapidly overpopulate the deserted islands, which then leads to lag and a necessity to cull. In redistributing the animals and adding new ones, animals will be limited to a few islands of similar character density, making it possible to set their reproductive rates to a reasonable level.

2) The alteration of animal processing code to species individualize overcrowding and to implement undercrowding checks.

Low animal populations will see their reproductive rates boosted, and high populations will no longer adversely affect other animals in the location. Overcrowding is now dependent on an animal's dangerousness and toughness instead of its reproductive rate, meaning bears will always be seen in low numbers, while pigeon populations can become very large. This will eliminate unlivable locations on deserted islands. Places like Burgeo will still be dangerous because of the variety of dangerous animals that dwell there.

This is mostly finished, and is just awaiting Chris to get the time to implement it.

3) Domestication

Domestication will allow for the containment and transport of animals, so players can conserve their own populations.

I have very little to do with this on the implementation side, and there is no time-table for this to be implemented by programming. It was recently discussed, but that doesn't really mean anything

After points 1&2 have been accomplished, and things appears to be viable (animal's natural growth rate to be moderately increasing or stable naturally, with a hunting ban able to regrow the numbers within a few Cantr years) then my job as RD Shepherd will be finished. It will be solely up to the players to maintain their animals, and if they die off, so be it.

I hope that helps.

[N-Aldwitch]

It definitely does help, and it clears some things up. It also makes the future sound not only very promising, but also very, very exciting.

Thanks for your lengthy reply, like I said, I can't wait for some of these things to come into action.

[Arlequin]

Ok, so...

In the Spanish candyland island there isn't any special link to any species, since they all are basically a bunch of grass-eating meat bags.

Cows play a small role as milk producers, for cheese and cornbread are being produced here and there. Also I think they are part already of the northern landscape.

Mountain goats have been the traveler's friend at the mountains for long, giving both meat and dung for grilling.

Swamp snakes at the swamps (meh!), our lake shape is often related to snakes.

In the Dutch/French island, bears, wild boars and wolves are really a part of the life already, there's even one place named after them. I've always regarded zebras, tho, like somewhat out of place there.

[w.w.g.d.w]

You removed part of animals but remember about islands where people are and there are no animals, there it is necessary to move them!
My charrie waiting on one island for animals.

[SumBum]

Desert snakes in Kiii desert area (might be very obvious, but I'm still mentioning it). Vital to survival and part of the culture as well as the tortoises. Horses are important, too, but I think their low numbers keep things interesting.

Please keep Burgeo dangerous!! It's nice to have a place that creates so many tales of adventure and treasure...if you can survive to tell about it.

[formerly known as hf]

I echo some of N-Aldwitch's concerns.

But, at the end of the day, the various problems with the animal system have been long recognised.

In the abscence of a full re-write of the underlying programming, many, many thanks to Doug for taking on what seems ot be one bitch of a task...

[frenchfisher]

Please keep Burgeo dangerous!! It's nice to have a place that creates so many tales of adventure and treasure...if you can survive to tell about it.

Seconded. Burgeo is amazing. Maybe it could be toned down a slight bit, but I like the insanity. Mayhaps this is because my two of my starter characters (one on my old, one on my new) spawned in the exact same location, right on Burgeo. I've grown quite fond of the place as a consequence

[bellois]

On Aldurea, one of polish islands, there are not any animals (only lemings AFAIK). And it's good. Don't change it. No one can have everything.

[CantrFreak]

We should have an island where it is quite small, but inhabitated by SOOOO many animals its impossible to live there without clearing it out which could be impossible (there may be a chance to clear it). However, it would have lots of the more rarer types of resources.

====

Anyway, the toucans, I don't mind, I just would like to have them in the forests surrounding Zuzi and the Zuzi, Kiii, and Zuzi Hills.

[N-Aldwitch]

In response to the idea for the island.. the new lands department has closed down now and they won't be opening up again.

[Cookie]

We should have an island where it is quite small, but inhabitated by SOOOO many animals its impossible to live there without clearing it out which could be impossible (there may be a chance to clear it). However, it would have lots of the more rarer types of resources.

When i played cantr this place already existed, had places called aki followed by more unronouncable words on it. Doubt they've just removed it.

[AngelSpice]

Can we get alligators back in the few swamps that there are?