The Near Death State [DUPLICATE]

[Skulty]

Duplicate of http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1994

Am I the only one to think it's weird that a person at 99% damage can still walk around, fight, pick up things, etc., but if a breeze causes him a single point of damage, he drops dead? And am I the only one to thinks it's boring when your char gets killed and you don't even have time to say your last words? I think I'm not... Now, the solution to this:

A third state, like, we have life and death, and now we get near death too!
It could work like this, the life state would be the same as it has always been: 0-99%. When your damage get over this, like, you would be at 112%, you get near death. The percentage wouldn't appear, but instead we would have a message saying near death.

From that moment on, you would be as good as dead. Can't move, can't work on projects and can't pick up things. You could still talk, and maybe give and drop items, so that, for example, a leader of a big town that got near killed by animals has the chance to give his items to the person he sees fit.

Also, that state cannot be cured, and everyday you would lose about 5% of energy, so that state really leads to death eventually. Oh, and the limit could be for example 124%. Over that and you drop dead just as it happens now. This makes it possible for instant kill to happen, if you make someone go from below 100% to over 124%...

Finally, since you're laying down in the floor, uncapable of moving too much, anyone could give you the "coup de grace" and send you to the other side, without a chance to fail at that, and as a diferent action from attacking, which would make it possible to attack and give the coup de grace both at the same day...

Also, I think that for role-playing reasons there could be the option of letting go, like, you make your goodbye speach, and you let go, you drop dead... It would be boring to make all the speach and having to wait for a couple days to finally die, or having to ask someone to give'em the coup de grace...

And now I think I haven't forgot anything... See, this would make it possible for some nice role-play, like making testaments, saying last words, and making it possible to near kill thiefs asking them questions after they are imobilized.
And yes, I know this is really a though job to program so, by now, I just want to know opinions!

[N-Aldwitch]

This is a very good idea. It removes the current black/white system we have, and also is a better suggestion than that Ghost one.

[tiddy ogg]

But death is death and there is nothijng, at least in the world from which he has gone.
And violent death, which is here being discussed, doesn't allow time for anything else.
There is a case for the very badly injured being a lot more helpless, but that's pretty much the opposite of what you want.

[N-Aldwitch]

But he is creating a trancendense from life to death. Cantr, my friend, is a game that needs to bend around people's time.
The current combat system in 90% of cases does not allow for the person to make a gallant or coward speech upon his death.
Also, imagine the immense enjoyment.. or role play enjoyment sorry.. to speed into town on a bike to find everyone dead, with one 'survivor' who is slowly dying.. he/she may reveal the identity of the murderers.

[SekoETC]

Something similar has been suggested before (in fact I think I suggested it) and people complained that people could use this to last minute vandalism. But if only dropping/giving things and talking were available, not making new notes, adding things on projects, starting new projects, moving, hunting etc, it might be acceptable.

If the state would last until the person lets go or someone finishes them off, technically some people could remain hanging on the verge of death pretty much forever (save for starvation, they would be unable to gather their own food but could still hang on if others fed them). Or maybe they would stop eating since if you're heavily wounded, you couldn't really think of eating now could you?

I'm wondering should editing notes be acceptable. Newspawn thieves could then choose to wipe documents just to get back at people, and people don't remember to keep copies up to date. If you can access the edit mode, there would be no limit on how much you can write, it could be one word or a whole book. Maybe the length could be checked somehow and big changes would not be allowed. Notes longer than a page shouldn't be editable at all because the person could change the whole contents as long as they would keep the length about the same. Also if creating new notes was possible, that would lead into notebombing, no doubt of that.

I don't think finishing a person off should violate the one hit per day rule. That would only encourage cowardly murderers to kill people fast so that they wouldn't have to look them in the eyes. That would leave a very small chance of talking to those who need it the most.

The more I think of this, the more I like it. There's a bigger threshold to killing a defenseless person than one who keeps running and picking things up.

[Skulty]

Why doesn't violent death gives time for anything else? Supose that you are shot with a crossbow and the assassin runs away. You're going to die eventually, but if no one finishes the job, you still have time to say a couple words and maybe give your dear necklace to your dearest friend before you die. Most of the times the assassin will finish the job, and that's how it is in real life, but sometimes it doesn't happen this way, and that we don't have in Cantr...

[N-Aldwitch]

But if only dropping/giving things and talking were available, not making new notes, adding things on projects, starting new projects, moving, hunting etc, it might be acceptable.

That's a really really good idea. This will also prevent pirates/baddies from killing the leader and thus causing no one to have an 'emergancy' building to hide in.

[nacistas]

i really like this idea

had a char, that would have said how she loves one man secretly and stuff just before she died

[Skulty]

If the state would last until the person lets go or someone finishes them off, technically some people could remain hanging on the verge of death pretty much forever (save for starvation, they would be unable to gather their own food but could still hang on if others fed them). Or maybe they would stop eating since if you're heavily wounded, you couldn't really think of eating now could you?

Answer:

Also, that state cannot be cured, and everyday you would lose about 5% of energy, so that state really leads to death eventually.

It's like your bleeding to death...

I don't think finishing a person off should violate the one hit per day rule. That would only encourage cowardly murderers to kill people fast so that they wouldn't have to look them in the eyes. That would leave a very small chance of talking to those who need it the most.

You're probably right, it should count as an attack...


About the notes, the easiest way would be not being able to make new notes. Of course, it would be nice to be able to write the testament, but you can always say it out loud, and someone writes it for you...

[SekoETC]

Another thing for consideration, maybe we could allow crawling as a project for dying people. Since one of my characters accidentally killed himself in a locked room and that's a bit of a bummer, it would've been more dramatic to drag yourself outside before letting your final gasp. But maybe you could only do that if you're carrying less than 1 kilo (room for notes and keys but not much more). Maybe it would take a whole day to move through a door, the project would be visible to others and other people could cancel it while you're on it if they wanted to stop you from moving. So it wouldn't pose a threat to anyone who logs in at least once a day. Also there could be a random chance of suffering a heart attack due to the stress (but the cause of death should still be marked as being hit by a weapon).

[Doug R.]

I like it a lot, but it seems to entail a lot of new functionality for something that will very rarely happen (in the grand scheme of things).

Use the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid):

Characters in the near death state can only talk, and they still drop their items as normal (having it otherwise would greatly disrupt the game balance by keeping power in the hands of the powerful, e.g. unexpected death allows for inheritance to favored characters, which shouldn't be allowed.)

As for the duration, suggestions:

-If the character gets attacked at all after entering near-death, the character dies (including zero damage attacks).

-Once the character is accessed by the player, the character will live for X Cantr hours after access. (Or, if that's not possible, X hours after player log-in)

-Near death states are forfieted if the account hasn't been accessed for more than X days (death instead).

-Finally, near death state would expire no matter what after X days.

[Darkle-ish]

I like this idea.

[Skulty]

Like it, Doug! A little bit less functionality, but a lot easier to program, which could lead to it being implemented a lot sooner (instead of ten years, just one or two ). Ok by me!

EDIT: Oh, but what about the entering of the near death state? Will it always happen or will there be a range, like 100% - 125%, for example? Cause I would prefer it with the range, so it would allow instant kill, and I don't think it's much harder to program this way.

[Reindeer^]

This is very good idea.

Also there could be a random chance of suffering a heart attack due to the stress (but the cause of death should still be marked as being hit by a weapon).

Is this necessary? The near death state lasts only 0-5 days. The Reaper will come in any case.

How can a char hold kilos of stuff but can drop it? IMO, char should automatically drop everything but notes when char get near death.

[Skulty]

How can a char hold kilos of stuff but can´t pick? IMO, char should automatically drop everything but notes when char get near death.

My ideia was, if you're laying down on the floor you can still hold things, but if you can't move you can't go and pick things up. But, as Doug said, let's keeps things simple and fair, so everything will drop on the floor. About notes, I don't know, if you can give them to someone else than it's a good ideia to be able to hold them, but if you can't, it's easier just to make everything drop to the floor, like when you really die...