Gay Marriage Ban Amendment

[Meh]

But I can't stop there. I'm on a roll.

Let's take the reverse side of the argument one more time.

The constiution is based on the bible. So what does the bible say?

One early christian interpeter said

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's"

It was in the context of taxes but it can be loosely interpetated to seperation of church and state. Meaning you can carry your beileifs into the process of the the state but at the end of the day the state is the state and God is God.

I forget his name. Hey-Zues Chrisomethingorother. Oh. Jesus Christ said that. Well he said it in arimaic but it was something along those lines.

I met him in Reno a few years back. He was playing the five dollar slot machine and was losing badly. I asked him why he didn't get up to leave before he was broke and he said "It just wouldn't be fun if I won all the time". He put his last five dollar coin in. He won two five dollar tokens. Then he said "Love your neighboor as yourself" and gave me a five dollor token, put the other one in his pocket, and walked off. I put it in the machine he was playing on and got the maximim jackpot the machine could give. Great guy.

[Bran-Muffin]

"I forget his name. Hey-Zues Chrisomethingorother. Oh. Jesus Christ said that."

"I met him in Reno a few years back. He was playing the five dollar slot machine and was losing badly. I asked him why he didn't get up to leave before he was broke and he said "It just wouldn't be fun if I won all the time". He put his last five dollar coin in. He won two five dollar tokens. Then he said "Love your neighboor as yourself" and gave me a five dollor token, put the other one in his pocket, and walked off. I put it in the machine he was playing on and got the maximim jackpot the machine could give. Great guy."

Lol, i love it.

[rklenseth]

The pledge was create by a flag company 100 years after the founding fathers. God was added even later than that.

I thought the pledge was written by a socialist in the early 1900's?

[rklenseth]

I don't believe in your god so why are you in forcing it on me. What would you say to me if I forced you to say a pledge that had the goddess in it or for that matter what if I were a satanist (their people out there that believe in satan) would you condon my making you pledge to our nation under satan?

I believe every Christian, Catholic, and Jew believes in Satan too. The difference between a Satanist and those above is that they worship Satan rather than God.

[west]

Chrissy, I'm not sure as many men are 'in the closet' as you seem to think.

Remember, 10% is a fairly liberal estimate. You act like closeted married Republicans are a sizeable voting demographic and i just don't believe that's the case.


And I wouldn't call Satanism a real religion--all it does is take a bunch of old ones and turn them on their heads. Sorry if that seems closeminded or whatever, but it's hard for me to take Satanism seriously.

[kroner]

And as I said before, when the Constitution was written, those who were agnostic were rare. At the time the Founding Fathers believed that the only way to protect our rights is to say that it was given to us by a higher power. If they had put that government had given us our rights then that would imply that the government can deny, change, and or regulate those rights.

What they meant is that the rights are fundamental, universal and independent of the system. If you believe in god, then the logical step from this is that the rights are god-given. The point was not to imply a god, it was merely a way of phrasing, which assumed the reader believed in god, a valid assumption since nearly everyone did.

now as for the pledge, "under God" was inserted during the 50's to ditinguish the good god fearing people of America from the evil atheist commies. Completely stupid reason. It has no place either. The pledge is a symbol of the country and therefore should be inclusive of everyone it represents. A pledge that alienates atheists, a legitimate portion of the population, cannot represent all of America and it cannot unify. People say it's ok because "If you don't believe in God, just don't say that part." but that would be like saying it's ok for the pledge to be racist and minorities can just skip over the offensive sections. The judges of the 9th curcuit court in CA are my heros. All the politicians who immediately denounced the descision are spineless.

[David]

Kroner is that true about the pledge? (insterted in the 50's etc etc...) where can I verify that?

[kroner]

eh... I think I heard that somewhere...
edit: yeah, 1954. just search for history of the pledge of allegiance. here's one site: http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/usconstitution/a/pledgehist.htm

[Sho]

Yeah, that's what I read in the New York Times. I didn't know the Pledge was written by a flag company, though. Interesting that so many American traditions trace their roots to business interests, like Valentine's Day, "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" and the Pledge of Allegiance. It must say something about the nation.
Now, back to my old statements: I don't think prohibiting the use of public land by religious groups is discriminatory because. . . oh, forget it, I'm not winning this argument. *begins to rip up old post, then stops and puts it back to serve as a reminder of the danger of saying things without thinking them through*

[rklenseth]

Yeah, that's what I read in the New York Times. I didn't know the Pledge was written by a flag company, though. Interesting that so many American traditions trace their roots to business interests, like Valentine's Day, "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" and the Pledge of Allegiance. It must say something about the nation.
Now, back to my old statements: I don't think prohibiting the use of public land by religious groups is discriminatory because. . . oh, forget it, I'm not winning this argument. *begins to rip up old post, then stops and puts it back to serve as a reminder of the danger of saying things without thinking them through*

Who said you had to win the argument? If you go about your life as if you have to win something then you will miss the point. This isn't the damn lottery.

I have made a pledge that I will never win again (well except maybe the lottery ) and that I will not accept any 'awards' or 'rewards' because someone happened to believe I 'won' something. Life is about earning things not winning things. I always cringe when I hear a politicians claim they won an election. They didn't win, they earned the respect of the majority of the people and because of that they were elected. It always sounds like they played a game of lottery with their oppsitition and got lucky and won the seat. Don't win things in life, earn them.

And for standing on your point, you have earned my respect. Don't give in because you don't think you aren't getting anywhere. You have a mind that thinks for itself so let it think and let the words flow and don't give a damn what other people might think or say. If you think yourself wrong later then come out and claim. Remember you aren't a hypocrite if you change your opinion. A hypocrite is someone who says one thing but does another in the same breath. So don't be afraid to say and hear or see what other think because that is the only way we learn about each other and the world around us.

[Chrissy]

Chrissy, I'm not sure as many men are 'in the closet' as you seem to think.

Remember, 10% is a fairly liberal estimate. You act like closeted married Republicans are a sizeable voting demographic and i just don't believe that's the case.

It must just be where I live.

I don't think it's a sizeable demographic. To sum it up, I believe Bush alienated a lot of demographics he didn't even consider.

Chrissy

[David]

There was this one ULTRA Conservative politician in my state that ended up doing things with boys... and he was publicly completely against any liberal attitudes toward anything about sex or marriage. I'm not suggesting that this is some huge demographic... I am just stating this rather... strange.. example.

[Meh]

I'll file that under "high speed chase of a flaming truck".

What gets reports is the bad cop, the slimy priest, and the hypocrits.

Not that there aren't bad cops, slimy priests, and the hypocrits but their "good" counter parts don't are newsworthy.

I do belive there is a sterotype of people who force their values onto others yet secretly are the oppsite of what they preach exist. They are ashamed of who they are so try to rid the world of it. It is a loose form of suicide. "I can't get rid of me so I will get rid of all those like me." These people are dangerous. I always assume zealots are like this but some may not have secrets they are ashamed of. I throw tomatoes as them all the same.

[David]

I must be an exploitative, heartless, parisitic, imperialistic, scheming, napoleonic complex control freak deep down then....