Animals

[Cantryjczyk]

I agree 100% that animal populations should be susceptible to the behaviour of chars.

and

I absolutely agree with that. In nature there exist mechanisms to adjust populations, with greater reproduction where there are few animals and less where there are many. Also food access ragulates population. I think the decisions on how the optimal local populations are evaluated should be transparent. For example, lemmings like forests and nuts and it seems that the optimal population will climb to 200, if there is less than that, reproduction increases and migration slows, more than 200 and reproduction slow and migration increases. And on the beaches with salt and fish, the optimal population of lemming should be 30. These optimal population numbers [defined by local terrain and resources] may also influence other animals, number of people, etc.

[Solfius]

Thanks for sharing those opinions with us. Unfortunately it can be very easy to forget about other language groups when discussing things like this because there is little crossover between the different language forums. Doing as you've done here certainly helps.

[Doug R.]

Unfortunately, my abilities fall within existing animal parameters. Anything requiring changes in coding are outside of my ability to change, hence my earlier statement that I don't want this thread to become a discussion thread for population theory, because I can't implement new code.

Thanks for making me aware of the problems in the Polish area. I have added them to my list of issues to look into.

[sanchez]

You are able to reseed the empty islands, correct?

[Doug R.]

Yes, but I'm not just going to toss animals about randomly and reflexively. Any new animal placement will require considerable research as to what kind of animals need to be placed and where they need to be placed. When I have gained enough knowledge and experience in the current inner-workings of the animal code and the database, I will work with players in the various affected language areas to alleviate their shortages.

There are language areas out there that have the opposite problem: overcrowding, and life there is a very difficult prospect. The changes I intend to make first will be aimed at saving characters, and then I will focus on shortages, which while annoying, are not lethal.

[sanchez]

The places most significantly impacted by overcrowding are fewer than by undercrowding. Currently the growing majority of players, and new players, have no access to primitive technologies made with animal products. This forces them to work in larger organisations that already have developed iron and aluminium level technology. This may be interesting in the abstract but it cannot be said that you are helping more people by only addressing overcrowding of certain animals. Scarabs are not an issue in high population zones.

[Arlequin]

Mmh... I can tell, the French/Dutch island seems all right, animals killed many people when there were few iron shields around but new settlements are growing fine.

The Carebear Land... I mean, the Spanish island, has a shortage of pigeons. Also Blajlokin has one kind of mountain animals which somehow ended there coming from the opposite side of the island. The mountains host only two species, none dangerous. Desert snakes are spreading too and they seem a bit out of place in those hilly, fertile lands. They are the most dangerous animal here... just slightly more 'frightening' than horses.

We got quite extensive swamps but only one species living there, and not a dangerous one. Besides that, there aren't predators in the whole island.

Edit: Animals listed in wiki that I think that could fit in the current SP island theme: dogs, sheeps, wolves and hawks.

[Cantryjczyk]

Doug R. Every island is isolated from others. No animals migration or anything betwean islands. So check one island after another, serapatly, and see yourself how bad it is. Make some calculation, like average number of animals per location for every island, and how much animals every kind on island. If this number is bad, like less than 15 or more then 150 animals, do something and help. Becose chars cant do anything in these situations, even if they try for decads and do they best. And remember about variety, it is not nice if in whole island there are only 3 kinds of animals. In polish zone we need more birds, mountain animals etc.

And animals should travel less. To be more local, more susceptible to the behaviour of chars in place where they are.

For example I have note with proze list from largest and oldest city in polish zone (not map right now, but map for many years):
to buy 100g of iron you need 632g of iron ore or 767g of coal or 2812g of ilmestone or 384g of salt or 640g of wood or 61g of hide or 40g of leather

In most places animals hunting is forbidden, and penality for that kind of crime is dead. Decads of animals protection didnt change much, especialy for older islands.

[DELGRAD]

There are language areas out there that have the opposite problem: overcrowding, and life there is a very difficult prospect. The changes I intend to make first will be aimed at saving characters, and then I will focus on shortages, which while annoying, are not lethal.

No do not fix the islands with more animals than characters.
That is what makes it so fun on those islands.
It makes the characters come together for a common goal.
To live or be killed by the animals.
It is the hard work and the burden that makes it fun.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

It would be nice if they could be made manageable by characters. Right now, they're so bad, there's really no hope of ever making them manageable. It's interesting at first, but then it gets old when your char realizes there's no hope of taming them and making the place safe, no matter that they're an expert and have been hunting every day.

[The Sociologist]

I don't want this thread to become a discussion thread for population theory, because I can't implement new code.

Doug, I'm sorry, and I don't want to jump down your throat, but reseeding is pointless in circumstances where the entire system got thoroughly screwed. It is pointless for MacGregors to ask for their lions and wolves back, or for me to ask for horses back in the Akypor forests, when the same collapse will just occur again and again and again. And those are strictly managed areas where poachers would be jailed or even executed for breaking the hunting laws.

So it's not that people have been irresponsible, it's that the animal system got screwed. Keeping breeding populations do not work. The animals wander too far, they wander too much and they wander when they are injured, meaning that that idiot novice newspawns kill them on the roads for no gain.

Once you can guarantee that breeding populations of up to 4 will stay put, then I'd like horses, deer, turkeys and hawks in the Akypor forests, please, and mountain goats aplenty throughout the mountains there. Thank you.

But until such a guarantee can be given, you are simply wasting your time. It would indeed be difficult to imagine a more utter waste of time than what you propose doing.

[DELGRAD]

It would be nice if they could be made manageable by characters. Right now, they're so bad, there's really no hope of ever making them manageable. It's interesting at first, but then it gets old when your char realizes there's no hope of taming them and making the place safe, no matter that they're an expert and have been hunting every day.

That is why characters must work together.
I am in a location with over 100 bears and boars combined
and things are a bit tough, but with the characters in the town
and my character things are progressing.
A town must prioritize things to survive.

[Zanthos]

Sure there is, with 5 experts and a shack, you could probably kill about 1 of every animal a day. So with 100 wild boars to start, it'll probably take about 6 years to kill them off (assuming onset of sporradic sleep and migration and reproduction)

anything less than that might screw you over thoiugh.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Yes, but even when they do work together, it is not feasible to make the populations manageable. And they reproduce and come back in just as quickly as you kill them so they never go away. My char generally kills 1-3 animals a day, only hunting the most aggressive ones. That's not counting what others kill (there's 5-6 people there). The populations don't really fluctuate to show that though.

[The Sociologist]

Omeo wolves / goats have personally been an issue for me.

There is another awake person on Omeo? Remarkable. Personally, I think it should be shut down--unless there are any Russians(?) left. Vast islands with nothing but "individualized" animals for the slow and laggy server to process, at the expense of faster processing that might actually bring a few people to the game, are part of what's slowly and surely killing off said game.