Make coins feasible

[Nick]

To put the suggestion simply; you should be able to make 10 coins for 1 gram instead of 1 coin for 10 grams.

Yes, it's that much of a change is reasonable and necessary.

They're simply not going to take off until then, because iron and other metals are already so useful; and easily divided up by the gram. The point of a coin is because one unit symbolises a value, and is especially convenient than say, carrying around a pile of bronze and iron with me to go to McDonalds.

Taking your 10 tangible pieces of iron, perfectly the same size as everybody else's gram.. already holds a value and is managable; you can turn it into one piece of iron which is in fact less tangible than the 10 pieces of iron you had to begin with. In terms of currency, this is working backwards!

Now I know some people will say they've made coins already, and that it will have been a waste of metal for them; but tell that to the people who spent 110g of steel on a chisel, et cetera. And besides, they would still be coins and the society can still give them the same value as before. And I have been gone a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt there are many coins out there anyway. It's best to correct this now, while it's early.

[Talapus]

Well I see one major objection to this. Since part of the value of the coins is their intrensic value (the metal to make them), it would require a proportional increase in the number of coins made per day (what you suggested would be a 100 fold increase). Presently, coins do not stack. It would be a nightmare beyond belief.

[Nick]

Well I see one major objection to this. Since part of the value of the coins is their intrensic value (the metal to make them), it would require a proportional increase in the number of coins made per day (what you suggested would be a 100 fold increase). Presently, coins do not stack. It would be a nightmare beyond belief.

Coins are purposeless other than what they symbolize; it doesn't really matter if you can make more coins for less, because it still has to be worth something.I can print out dozens of bills in my house, but nobody's going to accept them. That's not the value of currency. Since you can't turn coins back to metal anyway, their "intrensic" value is nil, in either case. If it wasn't, you'd only be upsetting those who already built coins; who are few.

And coins do need to be stackable eventually, that's granted. In fact there are more problems to this, in that grams are probably in integers, and you can probably not have an item that weighs 0.1g. So yes, coins would have to be their own class of object with some differing properties. But are you suggesting that since we can't stack coins, they shouldn't be in use? Because I don't see them taking off. Somebody could make it work at present, but there's no benefit to it at all. This needs to change.

[Talapus]

Since you can't turn coins back to metal anyway, their "intrensic" value is nil...

You actually can turn the coins back into their base metal.

[Nick]

Since you can't turn coins back to metal anyway, their "intrensic" value is nil...

You actually can turn the coins back into their base metal.

In that case, then you'd have to give people with coins chance to do that then, at present rates.

Still, the philosophy has never been to avoid a change for the better of Cantr to avoid devaluing or increasing the value of already existing items.

[Nakranoth]

Or when (if) the switch comes, replace every coin in existence with a stack of a hundred, then merge identical stacks. I honestly doubt we have decimal points to be used in weight right now, though, so I don't see this happening any time soon. Honestly, the more likely scenario is the gram of coin, which may be given an artificially inflated value over iron.

[Nick]

Honestly, the more likely scenario is the gram of coin, which may be given an artificially inflated value over iron.

That's an okay compromise.

But only because it would require less work to implement.

[wichita]

The mass of the coin has nothing to do with the lack of success so far. My character has been doing just fine with his system, and another system I have seen in game finally found a way to make it more popular, I think.

Coins are purposeless other than what they symbolize; it doesn't really matter if you can make more coins for less, because it still has to be worth something.

Call me crazy, but I don't think this jives with your opening argument. In the "successful" systems I reference above, the symbolic value of the coin has very to nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the metal used. In fact, making 1 gram coins makes them even more useless by diluting what little intrinsic value they do have. Or is this just me doing economics backwards again? :-S


The only remaining arguments against coins that I feel truly hold any water right now is the fact that they are not stackable and/or cannot be stored in objects.

1.) Borrow from the notes and add a button to the coins page, "Multiple operations on coins." This initiates a screen with the list of coins with checkboxes next to them (just like notes). Buttons at the bottom include "Drop these coins", "Pass these coins to somebody", or "Store these coins".

2.) Coin purses. If we can define a rule for objects - for example, storescoins:100 - that will let an object hold 100 coins, then one could quickly load coins into a bag for convenient storage in rooms, passing to other characters, or make for a quick getaway by bank robbers.

[Surly]

The weight of coins is not the problem. The fact that people try to apply real world economics to a world not yet out of the gift economy in most areas is what hurts coins.

Needs time, seriously.


Although... unrelated but, maybe if minting coins was automated? Wouldn't hurt anything would it? And makes it easier to produce coins...

[wichita]

Although... unrelated but, maybe if minting coins was automated? Wouldn't hurt anything would it? And makes it easier to produce coins...

Hard to say. I thought we already multipled the rate by 5 the last time we wehere complaining about it being labor intensive. Once again, I haven't noticed it dragging things down too much. It just means four or five days away from the public ever so often....darn.

[Surly]

Well... I am a big fan of more automated projects. I can't see how making people mint coins actually serves a purpose... *shrugs*

[Nick]

1 gram pieces of iron are still more convenient a currency than a coin.
How are you supposed to be able to afford to put tons of coins into circulation?

Let's not forget of course the obvious weight argument; your average sword weighs 100g while a coin right now is one tenth of that.

As I said before wichita; you can make it work, but that doesn't mean it is feasible.

Because right now, a coin just plain costs too much. The only society that will use them is one who is ran by a player who really wants to see a working coinage system in the game, or if some town just has too much iron to spare. Why make 10 coins when you can equip another soldier with a sword?

Countries won't be able to afford to make their coins have too low a value, because they simply cost too much. And then we'd be stuck in a situation such as eliminating all denominations of American currency except the 10 dollar bill; hard to barter, and you're better off just going back to trading those neatly stacked 1g piles of iron; the smart Cantrian's coin.

[Pie]

I must counter this argument with the best argument of all: the lack of time that has passed in cantr related to the advancement of sociaty and industry can be put as a ratio as 7,000:3 years campareing real life time to cantr , in wich we have advanced to cars, but yet we have no guns (i know it's in the works, somewere....) no computers, no telegrams, or anything of the sort that would help comunication. So we have a lack of comunication, a supply of demand and travel, what is the best solution? get an orgonasation that support such a wydespread sociaty, or what i like to call, a coin org.

not many people have the "type" of buisness that can actually sustain coins. The types of buisnesses that sustain coinages are the centerd ones. or governments. basically an orgonasation that can span locations and have each location be self suficiant wile still having a tie to the main branch. and once you have this, the opprotunites just JUMP at you for coins. traveling, tradeing, paying people in advance, SO MANY THINGS!!!

it's just that we have people like spider askervon who lugs the whole company with him everywere he goes, and dosen't set up any comunication network with the locations that he has outposts in.

so all I'm saying is: wait. Coinage will work.

[Nick]

We have radios, you know..

And while if I'm rich enough, I could set a currency up if I was so inclined, it would have to almost entirely be an OOC ambition, because there is no IC benefit. You're better off just using the 1g pile of iron as your currency unit, and save yourself the trouble.

[T-shirt]

Coins should have no weight. The amount of metal used to make one could be the same, or could even be larger; 50 or 100 grams, but the should not burden the user. Then it would become useful to carry iron coins instead of raw iron.

There could even be different value coins; 10, 50 and 100 grams for example. You could have two 10-gram gold coins and a 50-gram copper coin.

Wow! I just realised I made two suggestions at once; weightless coins and different value coins of the same material.