Cantr is very labour intensive ... good or?

[Sparkle]

However we few roleplayers see Cantr, and will play it, because it's a true role-play game, and if we didn't need to work to get a crossbow, iron shield, crowbar, bus, and galleon with halls in five seperate cities, then what fun would this game really be?

This is so true. If it wasn't for my chars. to have goals, mostly involving getting things they want/need) Cantr would not be fun to me. I love to RP and yeah that is fun too, but to see what my chars can produce, how much they can obtain, and to see how much they grow everyday is what I look forward to when I check them daily. Even if the challenge does become a little difficult.

However, I do understand how Missy feels. What I mentioned above is fun when you have new chars. (sometimes older ones depending on their goals) but once you obtain quite a bit and alot more is expected/demanded of you it becomes harder (in some cases to hard) to reach those goals. I believe this is why you can feel damned either way because their are mixed players out there playing their chars. in so many different ways. Like I said with the chars I have now the fuel implementation sounds fun and exciting, something someone can really work toward, but with my old chars. I would have been a little discouraged. It was hard to keep up with everything I had to do then wham! In pops another struggle.

So I guess what I am trying to say is do not get discouraged. Listen to opinions and do the best you can. That is all anyone can ask of you. Also, I think it would be good to consider all aspects of how everyone plays. If you only thought about how this would benefit Cantr and some players who may like this new implementation and did not ask yourself, "How will this affect this type of player?" then that would not be good decision making. However, I do think that when you thought about implementing this you knew you would get some negative feedback.

I know this was mentioned before a long time ago, but maybe you should get this feedback before the implementation and decide whether this will hurt more than help before implementing. Could save some time too since I have seen some implements taken away because of the feedback it caused. Maybe that will take some of the stress caused by the negative feedback away.

[Nixit]

Missy already mentioned Siom as a booming trade and I actively participated in that for awhile. It was impressive. Still is.

It's getting there in Lake Village too. But in Siom there were the Zwellingharts, who more or less had run the show for so long. God knows how much energy it takes to play those characters. Same in Lake Village, there was one old guy who had more energy than all the rest of us and got us organized to start this economy mumbo jumbo. I really don't think that either of those towns would be in the position they are without the spearheading of those three individuals.

This is an issue, no? All the mass trade that I've seen seems to have been set up by a couple people. I'm not saying that my characters didn't do work or that other characters didn't do work, but they were mainly just following the leadership.

Now, I am a young one and currently in my anti-schoolsystem phase so I could be wrong on this one, but could it be that the economy is simply not an interesting prospect for the majority of players? I'm just throwing this out there as an idea, but it does seem to make sense. The majority of orders for the person who runs a steel works is for weapons. One person came in just after he was spawned saying he wanted the strongest weapon I could make. I said sure, and so he's been helping me work, and even went on a trade run. So he is helping me, but he's motivated by the weapon on the end of the line. Y'know?

And these changes seem to be driving away the people who are interested in the economy aspect of the game, and that could pose a problem. *shrugs* I'ma keepa playin'.

[Nakranoth]

I'm not completely sure I follow... the economy in Catr is and forever will be character-motive driven. newspawns will work for established people so as to meet their own ends, and established people will employ those newspawns to maximize profits over a piece of time... Top people will coordinate it, because it needs to be co-ordinated to be sucessful so their cities will be sucessful. Economy IRL isn't really an interesting thing to most people, but it directly infuences all of us. So it won't likely interest that many charactes in Cantr, despite the impacts generated by theses economies.

[Pie]

I really don't see to much difference between cantr echonimy and RL echonimy, exept for a few things.

1: Size. self explanitory.

2: orientation: Caracters are, more often then not, going to forsake the place that they come from and go somewere els. But they aren't going to go to another large town, there going to go out and gather it themselves. That... isn't a verry good thing for econimy.

3: um... lets see.. I talked about size, and about caracter orientation ..... Well, I don't really think there is anything els that cannot be explained in the other contexts.

[Oasis]

I agree with you both, Nixit and Nakranoth. It is nigh impossible to find other characters who have any motivation to be able to carry on that type of energy that keeps those economies moving and booming. How are leaders supposed to retire in this game? There is no one willing (or capable) to replace them.

[psymann]

If leaders retire, and the town copes less well without them, well I guess that's ok. Many places in our world have their periods of great success and wealth, and then go downhill again afterwards - not just towns but whole civilisations.

In RL, leaders would die of old age so wouldn't have a choice in who succeeds them. Because old-age death doesn't really happen here, leaders are always in a position to try to find a successor as good as them. If they are really good, that's never going to happen, so I suppose they need to accept that, go on a long holiday, and say goodbye to the Golden Age...

psymann

[Oasis]

And know that all their years of hard work are likely to go down the toilet? Or worse, that the town will just die? *sighs* Not an easy thing to do, thus why I have one who did retire and ended up right back where they were, running the whole place again.

[Joshuamonkey]

Like Zady and Michael Zwellinghart.

Still annoyed that some twenty year old got to be Resource Commander.

[deadboy]

I'm beginning to get bored of Cantr now, just because there's too little emphasis on the plot line, politics, RP aspect of Cantr, and too much on the you must work ridiculous amounts with declining numbers of players as a result making it harder to work these amounts making more players quit etc spiral that there is now more emphasis on in Cantr. You want my advice on how to make Cantr better? Make it easier for small numbers of people working together to achieve alot in a short space of time. The enjoyment this will bring will bring in more players. Get rid of any stagnation by scrapping repairs, keep them active. Watch the game unfold and stop trying to get involved by changing the game dynamics.

Oh yes, and Siom is legendary

[N-Aldwitch]

I'm beginning to get bored of Cantr now, just because there's too little emphasis on the plot line, politics, RP aspect of Cantr, and too much on the you must work ridiculous amounts with declining numbers of players as a result making it harder to work these amounts making more players quit etc spiral that there is now more emphasis on in Cantr. You want my advice on how to make Cantr better? Make it easier for small numbers of people working together to achieve alot in a short space of time. The enjoyment this will bring will bring in more players. Get rid of any stagnation by scrapping repairs, keep them active. Watch the game unfold and stop trying to get involved by changing the game dynamics.

Oh yes, and Siom is legendary

Exactly!! You should quote this and start a new thread.

You have hit 10 nails on the head, that's how seriously right-on you are on this serious issue.

[wichita]

Make it easier for small numbers of people working together to achieve alot in a short space of time. The enjoyment this will bring will bring in more players. Get rid of any stagnation by scrapping repairs, keep them active. Watch the game unfold and stop trying to get involved by changing the game dynamics.

Do you have a specific set of projects in mind? Funny, I remember a time when we couldn't coordinate enough people to sail a boat across the lake and bring back enough firewood for cooking. Just a lot of people standing in the yard screaming, I need wood!!!


And what happens after this burst of activity finishes? Everybody stands back and admires their rapid achievement.

Jack says, "Wow! That sure was fun getting that fancy house built."
Diane says, "It sure was, Jack. That was a lot of fun. Now what do we do?"


Jack and Diane are either going to go inside their new home and cyber, or they are going to quit Cantr and go play WoW.

[Pie]

oooh, that was both effective, and adult orientated.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Jack says, "Wow! That sure was fun getting that fancy house built."
Diane says, "It sure was, Jack. That was a lot of fun. Now what do we do?"


Jack and Diane are either going to go inside their new home and cyber, or they are going to quit Cantr and go play WoW.

Or find other nice/useful things to build in it or enjoy their new home? How about a bed? A rocking chair? A rug? An amoire? Some machines for some trade they'd like to work in? There are lots of options.

[dryn]

Personally I quite liked most of what Deadboy wrote except for the "achieve alot in a short space of time" thing. Perhaps shorted then it is now but not too short for reasons that wichita stated.
I like projects to take a decent amount of time. If everything was quick, then what you accomplish is diminished. If you make a limo then that is a point of pride. If a limo is quick to build then more people will have one and that satisfaction is lessened.

When I think back on businesses my chars have come across they all are about 3-6 people. When deadboy talks about focus, that is the group size I am thinking of.

[Surly]

I'm beginning to get bored of Cantr now, just because there's too little emphasis on the plot line, politics, RP aspect of Cantr, and too much on the you must work ridiculous amounts with declining numbers of players as a result making it harder to work these amounts making more players quit etc spiral that there is now more emphasis on in Cantr. You want my advice on how to make Cantr better? Make it easier for small numbers of people working together to achieve alot in a short space of time. The enjoyment this will bring will bring in more players. Get rid of any stagnation by scrapping repairs, keep them active. Watch the game unfold and stop trying to get involved by changing the game dynamics.

This is exactly how I feel. Its exactly what I mean when I say that many staff members seem to forget this is a game...

Maybe if we had some kind of mechanisation so advancing was a benefit instead of reacting "Oh my god, they have reached the stage of having vehicles... lets make sure that doesn't happen again"...

And furniture? Is there any other object in Cantr with a worse ratio of effort to reward?