Do you think Cantr pages take too long to load?

[Joshuamonkey]

Cantr must have a lot of complications to it. I'm clueless how Cantr does all it that it does.

I just know how to make tables, and how to make a link...

[dryn]

:?
Oh, as much as i love seeing all the new additions to the game, is it that what is making things so so so slow right now????, it's almost becoming impossible for me to play.

I don't claim to know anything much about the dark inner working of Cantr but I doubt that this is the problem. Every tick most people will be doing *something*. The new additions would just increase the options, allowing a larger variety of *somethings* rather then a larger number of *somethings* to happen.
Some additions like weather would increase the load when added, as would've automatic projects. These increase the actual amount of work the server needs to do.

Anyway, perhaps it is just my luck but the only time I got lag was this morning (I log in right before maintainance).

[N-Aldwitch]

Jos, a possible alternative is to divide the world up four times (considering it's a torus). Place each of these divisions on their own seperate server. You are more or less going to need to do it eventually anyway with an increasing player count.
The only two issues are programming(time, complication, connectivity), you'd probably need a master server too just to watch over it all, and funding, as that would of course increase the cost of it by over 400%.

[MakeBeliever]

All seems much better now and back as it always was which is pretty fast really, i log in throughout the day and my times vary because my little one recently had mumps, so i have had a few 4am loggins for me after being nurse, my typing suffered from lack of sleep but thats life i would imagine. But it all works out well in the end. So seems whatever was causing it is no longer doing so.

[Jos Elkink]

Jos, a possible alternative is to divide the world up four times (considering it's a torus). Place each of these divisions on their own seperate server. You are more or less going to need to do it eventually anyway with an increasing player count.
The only two issues are programming(time, complication, connectivity), you'd probably need a master server too just to watch over it all, and funding, as that would of course increase the cost of it by over 400%.

Yes, I'm quite aware of this option. But you mention a few hurdles there: programming (i.e. loads of time) and funding ...

It would be fairly simple to implement in the sense that the only way to move from one island to the other is by sailing, so other than the table of user accounts, there are few tables that regularly change and should be kept consistent on several servers, as long as you keep track when sailors switch server. So it's definitely possible and doable, but it requires a lot of time and money.

[Sicofonte]

Dryn, I don't think that the amount of game features is the problem.
People is always ticking or writing. If they have more or less options, the only difference is the "variety" of this "ticks", but not the amount.

I'm sure the reason for the intermittent lag is the additions by the programmers. I guess that they have to lock the game for several seconds with each addition or test, causing a bottle neck.

So... to divide Cantr world among different servers doesn't imply to reduce the lag, even it can get worse due to the extra computation and comunication required among servers.


What about a mirror server only for testing?

1. All the players connects to the current server.

2. All the players actions are reflected from the server to the mirror server, so both Cantr worlds are the same (with a bit lag in the mirror).

3. All the programmers connects to the mirror server, adding or testing whatever they want. When they need to lock the server, only the mirror server is locked, the players server is still running fast. Once the addition/s is/are tested and ready to install into the players server, it becomes locked for a few seconds... only once in a day! (and not four or six hours each day).


Problem: money. Even taking in account that the mirror server doesn't need to have the same computation power or bandwidth (it hasn't forum or wiki, and it can take advance of the SQL queries performed by the players server), so it wouldn't be as expensive as the first one, it is clear that to mantain a server is a cost... unafordable?

[N-Aldwitch]

Dryn, I don't think that the amount of game features is the problem.
People is always ticking or writing. If they have more or less options, the only difference is the "variety" of this "ticks", but not the amount.

I'm sure the reason for the intermittent lag is the additions by the programmers. I guess that they have to lock the game for several seconds with each addition or test, causing a bottle neck.

So... to divide Cantr world among different servers doesn't imply to reduce the lag, even it can get worse due to the extra computation and comunication required among servers.


What about a mirror server only for testing?

1. All the players connects to the current server.

2. All the players actions are reflected from the server to the mirror server, so both Cantr worlds are the same (with a bit lag in the mirror).

3. All the programmers connects to the mirror server, adding or testing whatever they want. When they need to lock the server, only the mirror server is locked, the players server is still running fast. Once the addition/s is/are tested and ready to install into the players server, it becomes locked for a few seconds... only once in a day! (and not four or six hours each day).


Problem: money. Even taking in account that the mirror server doesn't need to have the same computation power or bandwidth (it hasn't forum or wiki, and it can take advance of the SQL queries performed by the players server), so it wouldn't be as expensive as the first one, it is clear that to mantain a server is a cost... unafordable?

Dude I don't think you know what you're talking about. Minus the fact that I suggested a physical, determined amount of division, you just regurgitated my suggestion.
In all functionality it's the same suggestion, at the least.

So... to divide Cantr world among different servers doesn't imply to reduce the lag, even it can get worse due to the extra computation and comunication required among servers.

Yep. You definately don't know what you're talking about.
Okay let me explain what dividing it will do, Sicofonte.

Let's say Cantr currently uses 2,000 kB transfer (lol!). That means, every time someone views a page in Cantr, the 'transfer' increases. (if a page is 20 kB, and 100 people view that page, the transfer goes up to 2,000. The host generally has a limit on how much transfer you have, this makes them more money I guess, and puts a threshold on internet usage).
Now, imagine Chris and Jos have evenly divided up the Cantr world, where the most popular quater (server1) uses 1000kB transfer. The next most used, uses 500kB (server2). Then 300kB, and finally 200kB.

When you divide server1 from the old host where all the world was one, server1 now has 1,000kB less transfer total each month! Meaning that's 50% less processing each month!

There would also be minimal inter-server processing.. if there was a substantial amount, it would be interpreted by the Master server anyways.

[Sicofonte]

Knock knock, is there someone at home?

[Jos Elkink]

I don't think transfer is the problem, but CPU usage ...

And yes, I am certainly convinced that splitting would help, since the only thing that would be "mirrored" as such would be login info etc. Most of the things stored in the database are in the end island-specific, so can be made server-specific.

Testing is entirely unrelated to the lag problems. And besides, we just acquired a test server, so are already making the move. (But with very limited mirroring capability.)

And N-Aldwitch, I know this is a personal thing, but I just hate it when people try to win arguments by saying that they know what they are talking about and someone else doesn't ... It's lame, pointless, and who knows you might be the one in the wrong ...

[dryn]

Dryn, I don't think that the amount of game features is the problem.

You must have missread my post. That is actually what I was saying.

[Sicofonte]

I don't think transfer is the problem, but CPU usage ...

SQL queries
Is there some way of distributing the CPU load along all the day in order to reduce the peak lag times?

Testing is entirely unrelated to the lag problems. And besides, we just acquired a test server, so are already making the move. (But with very limited mirroring capability.)

I was almost sure it was the reason -shrugs-.
The mirroring for the testing server in my suggestion was intended to confer it with a wide testing environment (thousands of unaware players are more likely to find a bug than tens of methodical programmers, Murphy's laws), without harming the players environment.
But better thought, it can be a silly, because the programmers couldn't notice the bugs if the players doesn't deal with them (with the bugs, in the players' server).
So... I shut up

Dryn, I don't think that the amount of game features is the problem.

You must have missread my post. That is actually what I was saying.

Oh I'm sorry, I was in a hurry, and my English is not completed yet.

[psymann]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!

It has now taken me over 30 minutes to log in, set up a project for grilling meat on a stone fire pit, and log out.

And all the more irritating when you restrict my minutes - I clicked to start the project (once I'd finally logged in) with 199 minutes remaining, and I now have only 183.

This is taking the bloody piss.

psymann

[Dreamhand]

I don't even bother logging in from 11:30am to 3:00pm MST. The lag gets horrible and then I get the "Cantr is not available" sign. Then I try to log in later... and I wait... I get logged in... try to do something... and then I get the "Cantr is not available" sign.

*sigh*

[BarbaricAvatar]

How much of the bandwidth does the forum take up?

If it would improve game performance, can't the forum be cut right back to just suggestions, general support and CRB sections for each language group?

If people want to chat, there's a channel for that.

I'm probably on my own here, but i'd far rather have a game that works properly and no forum, than a complete forum with a game that takes 20mins to load a page.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I think they're working on moving the forum to a separate server, so that doesn't matter. I'm not sure it had much impact in that sense anyway. I also think they're trying to figure out what's been going on lately. It has been particularly worse today than yesterday or Friday.