"Appearance" based on clothing and jewelry

[Nakranoth]

Or... like so many other thinks in the world. Dynamic scoring for clothing. They all start with no modifier, then we as players dynamically assign values that affect their order as thogh it were age, so a 25 year old with a cumlitive clothing score of 9 would be above a 30 year old with a cumlitive value of 5. Like this all cultures will have their own social modifiers about clothing and charries with poor eyesight wouldn't likely notice the diffrence between hemp and silk.

[sanchez]

Without putting any value judgements on the items, could there be a choice when naming chars to include the names of the items they are wearing to be displayed, using a button perhaps, as we do with their ages? The names of clothing items don't currently appear anywhere but the build menu, and are much shorter than the descriptions. As long as it's an option, only people who care about clothes will have to look at it, and only for the chars they choose.

[kinvoya]

I think many people would be very upset if graphics of clothing and jewelry were added in the game. I know they are in Wiki but it's easier to ignore them there. I'm not particularly picky about this kind of thing but I do think I prefer my own imagined idea of what a hide dress, for instance, looks like than one imposed by someone else.

I'll continue to work on the table. If nothing else it is giving me a familiarity with the clothes and jewelry again. I haven't paid much attention to them for a while mostly because they have so little impact.

I was pleasently surprised at how naturally the items fell into an indication of status. Very few items have required artificial adjustment of the point total. Should this result in the ordering of chars by appearance status, I think the one factor that would really make this idea work would be to add the chars true age onto the People page. It is constantly displayed on the Character's page so would it be difficut to add to the People page as well? If a very brief clothing/jewelry rundown appeared there, too, that would be very enlightening. It might look like this:

Joy Jones, 25, Silk dress, gold and diamond ring Female
Cathy Carter, 62, hemp trousers, hemp tunic Female
Akrak, 89, loin cloth, wooden bracelet Male

To me this speaks volumes about the chars just from appearance which is what people with eyes would naturally observe.

I would also really, really like it if it were possible for chars to wear more than one of the the same type of jewelry item. Ten rings, for instance would be impressive.

Finally, IMO, a large amount of the programming seems to go into changes that are either annoying (sickness/repairs/naming things) or are about fighting/dragging/hunting/skill stuff. I think that if a change like this were to be made it would fall more into the catagory of "fun" which people have been complaining about a lack of in the game. I think it would definitely encourage rp which has also been lacking.

I was hoping for more feedback on the table in the assumption that it would be used, whether it actually is or not. Is this the kind of thing that is applicable/useful to programming? I was thinking that just the final total would be used for each item. I would love to email the table I have so far to someone and have them tell me if they think things are on track. Even though this is a Suggestion, could it be linked somehow to a thread in Discussion? I'm not sure how many people who might like to give feedback look here.

Thanks.

[sanchez]

Your ideas of what constitutes status are just your own, which is exactly why people are objecting to this. Your chars get to decide how impressed they are with their clothes. Wouldn't it be reasonable for them to have different perceptions from even eachother?

[kinvoya]

I am attempting to make the total points as neutral as possible based on materials, tools needed and whether or not it is a luxury item (AOT basic clothing) with some minor adjustments for flair and for outrageously high totals created when lots of tools are required (mostly).

I am literally begging for input so that it will not just be my opinion. I don't think it's difficut to say that someone with a jeweled crown would appear to have a higher status than someone wearing a common daisy crown.

I am trying to be open about this while, hopefufully, providing a service to the game.

[Nakranoth]

Okay, also, if we take an initial list, then shift it dowards if more than one person is wearing it, then if everyon'e wearing, for example: hemp pants then it could acutally "score" with a negative value so even nudity would rate higher.

[T-shirt]

Your ideas of what constitutes status are just your own, which is exactly why people are objecting to this. Your chars get to decide how impressed they are with their clothes. Wouldn't it be reasonable for them to have different perceptions from even eachother?

Characters get to decide how impressed they are with age. Yet characters are listed on their age on the peoples screen.
If the list would be ordered by numbers of visible clothes or value of visible clothes, your chars still get to decide how impressed they are with their clothes as the can now decide how impressed they are with age.

I think this is a non-argmument to criticize a suggestion that can practically add some ingame use to clothing, without forcing players to respond to the change.

If weather would be introduced and clothing would protect against weather effects, every character would be 'forced' to do something with clothing like every character has to do something with protection now.

[wichita]

Age is a more objective index. Is this person older than this person? There is a defined answer to that question that can only be argued against by spiteful people who will argue against anything and everything.


Ranking clothing is a subjective index. Is a cotton dress more valuable than a hemp dress? We could go through the database and calculate a value for each item of clothing (which we do most of the time when we design things in RD), but it is not able to account for the fact that there is no hemp on one island and no cotton on another, or neither on a third island.

I think one of my characters is looking pretty spiffy from her particular point of view because she might be only one of two people in the entire region that can make fur clothing because they have to kill rhinos with bone spears to get large bones for fur scrapers! That makes a fur hat pretty darn dull in the old developed lands, but pretty darn impressive in her neck of the woods.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Joy Jones, 25, Silk dress, gold and diamond ring Female
Cathy Carter, 62, hemp trousers, hemp tunic Female
Akrak, 89, loin cloth, wooden bracelet Male

I kind of like this part of your idea. It doesn't necessarily have to rank the people any differently on the char page, but it'd be nice to add maybe one or two of the items they're wearing; if they don't have anything then there's nothing by their name. Then you can look at them in depth if what it shows interests you and you want to see what else they're wearing. It would make clothing a little more visible without pre-determining what is considered rare or valuable to chars. I'm not sure about the age thing being visible, but I like the items.

I guess the way you could choose what was shown there is by ranking the different clothing categories so it would show say, pants instead of a loincloth if a person was wearing both. That's done anyway to outer clothing and under clothing, isn't it? I don't think you can see other people's loincloths in the descriptions if they have pants on. I know you can on your own chars but that's so you can take them off.

[T-shirt]

Age is a more objective index. Is this person older than this person? There is a defined answer to that question that can only be argued against by spiteful people who will argue against anything and everything.

If you know the exact age of someone, that's true. But if you have to guess someone's age from their looks, it can become very difficult to tell who's fifty and who's sixty. You certainly won't tell who's the older one of two people in their sixties. In Cantr you can. I don't mind that you can, but you can also tell the difference between someone wearing nothing, someone wearing fur and hides and someone wearing cloth garments. Also the difference between someone wearing one piece of clothing and someone fully dressed is obvious. The finer nuances like leather trousers or cotton ones depends on taste.

Ranking clothing is a subjective index. Is a cotton dress more valuable than a hemp dress? We could go through the database and calculate a value for each item of clothing (which we do most of the time when we design things in RD), but it is not able to account for the fact that there is no hemp on one island and no cotton on another, or neither on a third island.

That's true. Local differences in availability of resources are difficult to take account for. The difference between someone wearing only a loincloth or someone with legs, body and head covered in cloth garments is obvious and can easily calculated.

I think one of my characters is looking pretty spiffy from her particular point of view because she might be only one of two people in the entire region that can make fur clothing because they have to kill rhinos with bone spears to get large bones for fur scrapers! That makes a fur hat pretty darn dull in the old developed lands, but pretty darn impressive in her neck of the woods.

I think my newspawn character has a great deal of authority and admiration in his spawnplace, because of the way he acts and is respected by all.

[Arlequin]

See, you can always use the raw amount of clothing pieces as the rank index. That's objective. Then, as with age, your character may decide that a guy with three snakeskin clothes is more respectable than one with twelve pieces made from hide and bones.

At first glance, tho, I always get caught by those I find carrying a lot of clothing, even if it's cheap.

[sanchez]

What happens to simple and elegant?

I'm ok with adding an option to display names of clothing items in the char description. Then it's player choice.

Longevity does have special significance in Cantr. Chars get stronger and more skilled as they age. I like that fact, but it's a different debate.

[Chris Johnson]

Not really a different debate as the current order is by age and in a lot of ways this debtate is about how you order people by status

But people seem to be ignoring something which is a more important measure of status in Cantr more than RL and that is activity - I personally notice characters who are more active regardless of age or what they are wearing or carrying - activity is really the key determinant of status (or at least perception/noticablity ) in most places.

But - whilst I've suggested it, I'm against the idea of ranking by recent visible activity ... the clothing basis may be an interesting way to go ... no more arbitary than by age and maybe a little more random - remember the top of the list always gets punched by that char going a lttle mad - (or quiting the game).

[sanchez]

Age is beyond one's control. That's its crucial difference.

[kinvoya]

I use the word "status" because I couldn't think of a more neutral one. Maybe someone else can. What I mean to convey is that a person catches the eye for some reason. It might be because they are young but have a lot of valuable clothing and jewelry (is she someone's mistress?) or because they are old but have almost nothing (is he a monk?).

Having them be at the top or the bottom of the list is more a way of having them stand out than of assigning importance or respect. That can only be done through rp, I think.

This change would encourage chars to seek out clothing and jewelry which reflect thieir personalities and life choices just as in rl. It can't be perfect but it works pretty well, I think. Presently, I give only the briefest glimpse at what chars are wearing and it's too much to look at all of them on a regular basis. If clothing were shown on the People page it would be easy to see if they have changed something and comment on it. I used to have fun making nice clothes and jewelry for my chars but gave up because no one seemed to notice. I'd like for clothing and accessories to have more of the impact they should.

The issue of chars traveling to places that don't have the same kinds of material is insurmountable, I think. But if items worn are shown on the Player page it would be easy to see that s/he is wearing something unusual. Also, if someone traveled to an island where everyone is wearing hide or leather and wood jewelry then having a hemp outfit and a copper ring would, most likely, put them at the top of the list even though they were not particularly impressive back home.

I'd love to link the table here for people to look at but I don't know how. Can I host it somewhere like Photobucket?