Weapon diversification

[The Sociologist]

Chris, thank you yet again. And sorry if I was perhaps a little too crabbity earlier. I think it will indeed pay to be very very cautious about this particular issue. Thanks again.

[Phalynx]

[west]

I was, in fact, referring to a time (more than a "real year" ago) before characters had a strength variable, when all characters were equally "strong".

Hmm, I really think you are wrong, actually. Unless I'm really mistaken, I think the characters had a 'strength' field pretty much from day one. Or at least from when violence was introduced. I guess the functionality was more similar to "damage", though, so I guess you're both right ...

Not a variable one, though - else how did, say, a war bow ALWAYS hit for 35 no matter who was wielding it, and an iron shield ALWAYS block for 30?

Used to be, the only things that mattered in combat were the attack value of the weapon and the defense value of the shield. How is strength a factor there?

[Surly]

Upon the recommendation of Surly, weapons are now going to be diversified in their reliance on the fighting skill or the level of strength of the character. Right now, the balance is always 60/40 - 60% skill, 40% strength. In the future this will differ per weapon or shield. So some weapons will become useful for weak skilled people, while others will become useful for strong clumsy people.

Yay! I like it when my ideas get accepted... hehe

...And related to this , the characters physical strength is now visible in the character description - as with skills it is divided into 5 categories

• Much weaker than average
• Weaker than average
• Average strength
• Stronger than average
• Much stronger than average

At least I now know how much my chars suck...

[Nosajimiki]

As mentioned in 2 other threads viewing the strength of other characters has been turned off - just to preserve some degree of mystery when you target another character

Contrary to other's beliefs...

I thought it was a good and logical development, even if it did mean that a few of my more RPed strong charies turned out to be really weak, and vise-versa
The way see these new introductions is that it's a good excuse to RP ageing, if you get screwed over, you can be like, "awe man, I must be getting old" if it helps, you can be like "man all this <insert> must really be paying off" Visable str can be the same. If you RPed being big and strong, you can then RP getting fat from all the <whatever you've been eating>.

[Surly]

I will say this again, as many times before... you should never, EVER, be forced to RP anything. No questions. You can tell m that its because players are "unimaginative" but whether they are imaginative or not you should be required to play something you are not comfortable with. That was my main argument against skills (although there are many others), and I haven't changed my views in that regard.

However, this thread is not about skills... and you that can still see your own strength is development enough for me.

Not to mention getting the idea Jur and I discussed over a year ago finally implemented.

You know... I miss Jur.

[Spider]

AGAIN?! lol

[Sho]

I was, in fact, referring to a time (more than a "real year" ago) before characters had a strength variable, when all characters were equally "strong".

Hmm, I really think you are wrong, actually. Unless I'm really mistaken, I think the characters had a 'strength' field pretty much from day one. Or at least from when violence was introduced. I guess the functionality was more similar to "damage", though, so I guess you're both right ;) ...

Not a variable one, though - else how did, say, a war bow ALWAYS hit for 35 no matter who was wielding it, and an iron shield ALWAYS block for 30?

Used to be, the only things that mattered in combat were the attack value of the weapon and the defense value of the shield. How is strength a factor there?

He's talking about the old name of the "damage" bar. Attack, defense and most everything else did scale with that.

[west]

Well yes, the more damaged you are, the "weaker" you are. But any two characters at the same level of health or damagedness would attack, defend, etc. for the same values, if they had the same equipment.

There was no individual differentiation in strength levels.

[SekoETC]

the strength of other characters has been turned off

That sucks. Ok, maybe we can later have a more complex structure where you can hide your muscles under layers of fat or clothing, which wouldn't make it so transparent. But currently hiding the strength seems like a step back.

The only problem with skills and strength was that they didn't exists before and what people used to rp their characters to be like wasn't taken into account - it couldn't be taken into account because so many people are munchkins. I'm asking you how many characters are rp'ed to be nice and chubby (unless they have the mind of a child)? How many characters are rp'ed clumsy or otherwise physically limited without being retarded? There's just the extremities, the skillful, heroic people and the half-witted jesters. Nobody wants to play a medioicre character. (Unless counting those who are just working for people without ever developping a personality.)

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Actually, quite a few of my characters will openly admit that they're bad at something if you asked them, for example, why their potato field is all brown and crispy and they keep jabbing their fingers with bone needles.

[Doug R.]

I would just like to reiterate my standpoint that I will leave Cantr forever if guns are added.

Pet peeve of mine.

Don't worry, guns couldn't possibly come until after high grade polymers, err... plastic...

<sarcasm> Because, as we all know, muskets were made out of plastic, not wood and steel. </sarcasm>

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I'm asking you how many characters are rp'ed to be nice and chubby (unless they have the mind of a child)? How many characters are rp'ed clumsy or otherwise physically limited without being retarded? There's just the extremities, the skillful, heroic people and the half-witted jesters. Nobody wants to play a medioicre character. (Unless counting those who are just working for people without ever developping a personality.)

Players still have the option to rp them according to their strength; at least now they know the truth about their character and they can make a choice. It's not like the strength factor is gone. The perspectives of other characters shouldn't force a character to be played a certain way or make a player feel like a character should be played a certain way. Without forcing players, you will never get the diversity that you want, but forcing them also will drive them away. I agree completely with Surly's previous post.

[Surly]

Nobody wants to play a mediocre character.

And nobody should be forced to if they do not want to... but I am not so sure thats true. I find it much easier to have about half of my chars as "mediocre" chars, without outstanding traits. One, this helps the society by providing those somewhat anonymous chars that make things keep moving... and secondly it allows me to play my other, more extravagantly unique chars to a much better potential. And many players are like me in lacking time for 15 brilliantly rounded chars. The skill system should support this... and visible skills don't really aid that, with the current system. You constrict RP and the players far more than you aid them.

Without forcing players, you will never get the diversity that you want, but forcing them also will drive them away.

I am not so sure I agree there. I found there to be more diversity back when players were more free to direct their char to the areas they felt they could play best, and the game mechanics neither helped nor hindered them. That's why I am a big advocate for a standard starting skills set and more evident skill progression. What we have now... the worst of both worlds, really.
It should not be that some players have uber-characters (like Spider and his ridiculous attack strength) and others have weakass unskilled chars (like one of mine who hit under 30 with a crossbow... and he was an expert also. and my newspawn has discovered 10 skills so far...novice/awkward at 9 but an expert fighter. And guess what? So far below average strength that that stat is completely negated). At least this weapon change is a step away from those uber-chars.
Gah, no more skills debate!

I agree completely with Surly's previous post.

Of course you do, peon!

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I agree completely with Surly's previous post.

Of course you do, peon!

Psh, I'm not your peon. Sorry to interrupt your delusions.