3 or 5 attacks per day- slightly more realistic.

[SekoETC]

What I said was that even though the "other person" would not gain an extra attack on the person with a crowbar, the delay might at least in the long run give others time to join the battle.

Though it would be cool if there was some way of simulating battle dynamics in a way that would make it worth while to carry a second weapon for close range battle.

The problem with this suggestion is that the balance is so delicate - if implemented wrong, characters which many people have a bone to pick with (like Mary Williams for example) might get whacked without a chance to hit back. Even if the system was fine tuned later on, we may have lost many fine characters in process. So if this got implemented, it should be tested aforehand.

The element of surprise is a good factor but only works on the first hit. Skills should also be taken into account. While an awkward person would require incredible luck to kill an expert, if someone attacked a person of the same skill level, there would be over 50% chance of at least wounding them seriously, a wound which would affect the later course of battle.

[Sicofonte]

I think it is clear for everyone that taking away "characters-security" from Cantr will be a problem for Cantr in its whole essence.

The reason:

(IRL)
If you can't prevent anyways the chance of being murdered in a round, you can't have too much affection for your life.
(translated to a RPG)
You will play a while and after some deads, you will look for another game capable of attracting your attention for more time.


So...


We can give more realism to the combat system, but we can't allow that this realism kills the game, we can't allow a char being murdered by another char in a day.

IMO, it would be a good idea to put a lower time limit for an assassination to be possible, forcing that to kill a defenceless awkward warrior using elite weapons (battleaxe or crossbow) takes an expert warrior one day (one blow in that situacion, 100% damage).

[SekoETC]

The chance of a swift kill shouldn't be eliminated altogether, it should just be very low and if it fails, the victim should be fully alert and somehow capable of defending themselves.

What makes Cantr a special game is the fact that death is permanent. The only problem is that some people like N-Alwich and who ever has gone through dozens of characters cannot comprehend this, because if you go through characters like socks, you cannot develop an emotional bond to them, or develop in-depth features in them. If you lose one character to a well-planned assasination, it can be an interesting experience but if several of your characters start getting attacked due to their status, equipment or people generally not liking them, it's bound to drive people away from the game.

[El_Skwidd]

I think that, in time with Cantr's style, it shouldn't be possible for one person to kill any other person in one day.

But, the way it is now, you either need to drag someone into a locked building or have a group of 5-6 people to eliminate someone quickly. I don't know if anyone has ever tried to organize such an effort in-game, but in my experiences it usually ends up in a good deal of OOC chatter. I was asked once if I lived in PST or EST or GMT and what hour I could be on the next day, and I was pretty mad about it. This was all in-game, by the way, and said out loud by the leader of the party.

What makes this suggestion attractive is that it would reduce the number of people needed to have a quickly operated, successful operation. Tiredness is the key to this suggestion. Successive attacks need to both reduce the attacker's ability to deal damage and the ability to defend himself - drastically so by the third attack. An extremely light weapon, such as a dagger, knife, bagh-nakh, or maybe even a shortsword, would reduce this effect somewhat.

Let me repeat that under no circumstances should it be possible for one person to flat-out kill a healthy, undamaged character in one day. Consider this change similar to upping the smelting rates: it just makes things faster.

[Kreed]

Its nice to see the debate and evolution of some very interesting ideas.

I'm in total agreement with Seko regarding the delicate nature of any possible implimentation.

I think it is clear for everyone that taking away "characters-security" from Cantr will be a problem for Cantr in its whole essence.

I think that, in time with Cantr's style, it shouldn't be possible for one person to kill any other person in one day.

Though I dont think it should be probable that an attacker should be able to kill someone in a day, I think it should be possible in less than two. These responses to the thread seem extreemly conservative.

You can argue that security=stability, but you can also argue;
security=stagnation=boredom.

I understand peoples fears about this suggestion but it has potential to invigorate and add something.

With care and balance it can give the possibilty of;
duels
more focused individual violence
less random hitting and running

without removing the advantages of organised fighting or increasing the possiblilty of the dreaded masacre.

Its a win win.

[N-Aldwitch]

Cantr isn't supposed to be about spending hours and hours in-game on characters.

Says who?

Are you serious? Like, you're not being sarcastic or something?

The game is designed for players who have more on their agenda then just gaming.

Cantr isn't supposed to be about spending hours and hours in-game on characters. Okay?

Many players only play for a few minutes

Says who?

Says a majority.


Regardless, most of my dead characters are from when I first started, just making mass amounts of newspawns and killing them off for the fun of it.

Usually I don't find something within a character and he dies either by hunger (accidental) or for random occurences like animal attacks.


Aanyway..
A new combat system has been asked for, for a while. Let's give this a try.

Also, how are people interpreting this- because I was thinking that the first three attacks were free of tiredness (maybe like 2%) but then the fourth increases by 50%+ (or more) and the fifth attack renders you useless?

Ooh, perhaps a sixth attack makes you feel faint!!

[new.vogue.nightmare]

I would imagine that tiredness would mount in the same manner that it does under the current combat system. A few swings with a waster put my character completely out of commission for the next day and a few hours.

[Kreed]

Also, how are people interpreting this

The way I'd like to see it would be an exponentially increasing tiredness that causes each succeeding hit less power and less chance of hitting and balanced so that only three or four hits are possible. Hitting would be possible after those but would be ineffectual or miss completely.
I do like the idea of scaling hits according to login but think it may not even be necessary if the balance of tiredness was good.

Cantr wrote:
The game is designed for players who have more on their agenda then just gaming.

Cantr isn't supposed to be about spending hours and hours in-game on characters. Okay?

Cantr wrote:
Many players only play for a few minutes

Black Canyon wrote:

Says who?
Says a majority.

I have a hectic lifestyle, three boys, three cats, a dog, a full time job and a part time one. My wife has health problems so I try to help round the house cooking, cleaning and shopping.
As a result some days I don't get to play at all and most days I get 15 minutes or less. I've played for nearly three years off and on and I have 8 charries two of which are town leaders, one owns a large building and another has a sloop. I have yet to have a charrie die from anything but starvation, and one is a warrior whose been in many fights.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm one of the people that the one hit a day rule is sposed to protect and I am saying I'm happy to give that up for the sake of the game. The one hit rule has served well but its time for a overhaul, there can be something better.

[Black Canyon]

Cantr isn't supposed to be about spending hours and hours in-game on characters.

Says who? Do you think it is instead about going through one hundred plus characters, one after another, contributing nothing to the larger story of cantr history? Which do you think adds more richness to the game experience..... a John Locke or a Nicki Blackrock...versus N-Alwitch's character number forty-eight who just got killed for punching the town leader and stealing a stone hammer off the ground?

Sorry for quoting myself but there is nothing more annoying than to be quoted out of context. The point that I am making isn't that some players don't play for minutes at a time each day. However.... after three years, Kreed as an example, the typical player has indeed spent hours and hours in-game on characters. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Any character in the game that is nearing thirty is usually one that their player has spent much time in development. I appreciate that Kreed is willing to sacrifice for what he feels is the good of the game... I'm just not so sure it is

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Cantr isn't supposed to be about spending hours and hours in-game on characters.

Says who?

Are you serious? Like, you're not being sarcastic or something?

It is for some people though. Cantr is about whatever the player playing gets out of it. For some it's not getting completely into their characters and for others it is about spending hours on their characters. Just because it's not hours and hours of investment for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others. They shouldn't have to fear for a character to get killed by another character single-handedly before they can get on again in a day. Cantr doesn't need to be sped up that much.

And for the consequent blows being reduced in effectiveness, the second blow alone would have to be very drastically reduced. At least by 30-50%. I've got a character that could kill another in two hits with a claymore (probably something even lesser than that as hard as it hits with the claymore) if there's not a drastic reduction in the second blow. Yea, they might miss, but this one never has and giving it three blows free of much tiredness penalty? Probably not going to miss twice. I've heard of and seen many other characters that could do the same thing, especially given a good weapon. Heck, some don't even need a good weapon. I think I remember seeing that someone hit someone with an iron shield for 36% with a bone spear. Give them three blows with little tiredness effect. That might be the exception rather than the rule, but it needs to be considered.

[SekoETC]

Not to mention that once the target has gotten wounded, they block less and the future attacks will deal about as much damage as the first one, due to the blocking being less efficient.

EDIT: What we should have is more randomness. Something between missing totally and hitting all you can. Currently if the tiredness, skills, damage and hitting weapon are the same, the damage dealt will be the same every time, provided that the person doesn't miss. There's no chance of an expert nearly missing with their battle axe, merely cutting a 5% wound on an unshielded person. It's 50% or nothing. This way you couldn't be sure that you would be able to kill someone, even if you're skillful. I even seem to remember that missing isn't based on skill at all, it's totally random. - Utter foolishness! It should very much depend on the victim ducking, the skill of the attacker, the weapon used and so on. It's hard to change the direction of a blow with a heavy weapon, such as a battle axe, while someone wielding a dagger could stop their motion while noticing that the victim is ducking, and stab them some other way.

[N-Aldwitch]

Well, go ahead and suggest it.

I'm actually against my idea now, but for one reason only- the other person might, (might!!) not get a chance to log in and do something to prevent the attack. Regardless of whether it's an assasination or not.

[SekoETC]

the other person might, (might!!) not get a chance to log in and do something to prevent the attack. Regardless of whether it's an assasination or not.

No shit, Einstein!?

[N-Aldwitch]

Ooh I just had the best idea, it's an update from this KINDA.

Dual-wielding!

Let's just say everyone is right handed in Cantr. (change later)

You put your sword in one hand and your petty short sword in the other.

The right hand does 100% damage, and the left hand does 50% damage. The amount of tiredness when attacking people is doubled.

[Jaguar45]

Just a thought for all you battle mongers out there. You think there is not enough war or violence and not enough treachery. Well I just went over my characters and it appears that out of the 29 deaths, 8 have been murders. That is more than a quarter and includes summertime sleeping sickness. In addition, there are almost 2 deaths by animals (with one I was dragged inside before it was finalized, but I was left hanging on 97% damage and it officially classified as sleeping sickness).

Now back to the murders. A few of my characters have participated in some of the greatest wars in the Cantr history, but all on the winning side and with luck and chance they all survived those. But those murders were totally uncalled for. Just some greedy people after riches that my characters carried. It is not hard to kill a well established person (iron shield, claymore, crowbar) if you have a building with two locks and the person being murdered has only enough healing food to heal around 50%. The person being dragged does not even know that you are doing it as long as you time it well and keep quiet about it (even if you are weaker than the one you are trying to murder). And some of you want to make it even easier?

Any point in being able to hit more than once a day is that you have a place to rest so you can get back in and make it even more likely that you can get away with murder before the person can break out with his lousy crowbar that fails to help the captured most of the time.

I am sure that this will not change the minds of the well spoken sociopaths, but I just thought that anybody who is not playing Cantr for a power trip and the adrenaline of a murder and was thinking this is a good idea, forgets about it.