to much change to good ol cantr

[JJ]

ok over the last few months ive seen people talking about changing cantr even more. such as food, the iron and steel have already been killed off. lol and such as plowing and the violence system.

i cant understand why, you need to change a perfectly good game into something more complicated, and which will make newb life even more difficult yet for them to be able to survive in the cantr world. cantr has changed alot over the past year. seriously, cantr isnt a pure real life world. lol you got your cars which run with out gas, and bikes. but yet there isnt electricity in the game. we dont even drink water for crying out loud! lol! why is it that people sooooo want to change cantr to the point its not fun any more and its surely becoming more of a fight for survival game than a society sim. seriously think about how much cantr has changed. some changes were great! but some have made it extremely annoying.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

With the current system of ease, there is no society. Everyone exists on their own. There is little or no economy, no incentive to join with others for any purpose other than military conquest.
With the new difficulties, it makes it necessary for people to band together in societies.

[JJ]

wait a sec there bud lol, if we look back in history people lived in castles fought like crazy with each other and lit. bashed them selfs over their head with clubs and what not.some people didnt live together. lol right now i think some towns show a great society sim. just like real life take the middle east you dont have the oh lets bond and be a happy community, theres constant battles and fighting to see who has power over who. dont we are over looking that little detail? that not everyone is going to be living in peace and harmony forever? im pretty sure its hard enough trying to get thru life in cantr with out being stabed in the back lol. now adding more complicated things is making life even come to a halt in some towns in cantr thus crushing the society level in the game.

[west]

I've been arguing JJ's way for a long time, as you'll recall, but that is a good point, Chris.

This is, after all, a society simulator, not "Cantr Tycoon"

[grayjaket]

No, the changes are good. I like how it's made more and more realistic, without total realism even. The hematite thing is cool, and I liked it. It's making it more challenging and exciting I think Go changes! 'Sides, without changes the game would just become simple, and eventually we'd have like 3 superpowers ruling the entire cantr. Or something equally crazy and not fun. Although, that'd be cool....

[new.vogue.nightmare]

I didn't say that we had to live together in peace. But you said yourself JJ that it is supposed to be a "society sim."

As it is now, it's a "hoard things for yourself before other people can get them sim." The only difference between it and other MMORPGs is that Cantr isn't a realtime graphical game. Unless people have some incentive to work together there will be no societies.

You see newspawns saying they need a job. But they don't. They can get everything themselves. Every man is an island. There is no need for other people, and in fact, many things of the game would be easier without the ambitions of others restricting things. Cantr is finally progressing to a state where there is some kind of economy. Now there will actually be a reason people work together. It will be similar to RL in that people will need some way to live. If people don't want to live with other people, they can, but they won't get the benefit of society. How often do you see hermits living alone with huge stockpiles of resources? How often do you see your neighbor farm his own food, or build a smelting furnace and make their own steel? For a society to function, people need to work together. And as in real life, there will be people living apart from society in Cantr. But now they're restricted to a realistic level of development. They can live alone, but they won't be just as well off as those who stay with society.

[kroner]

i agree with oni/chris/new.vogue.nightmare on this one. it should be harder to survive. if it's too easy to stay alive then the only aspect of society that cantr captures is the power struggle part and anything else is artifically inserted by people in a ttempt to make things more realistic. take businesses for instance. they're completely pointless righ tnow. in fact almost all economy in cantr right now is held together artifically instead of as a necessity or because it benifits people. where's the trade? the ruthless business people? the struggle to make a living? it's too easy to survive right now. cantr could be even more awesome with all the things it's missing.
these changes i think are at least a step towards all that cool stuff.

as for helping newbs:
-a clear manual that would explain all the information people would need to start their characters on the same level as experienced players
-item deterioration to take some of the advantage away from older characters.

[JJ]

thats not my point though life will be extremely hard for them a guide isnt going to help nor deterioration. if a new player starts to play cantr they would like to start making a life then what? they cant do anything with out the stuff they need. and right now people are holding on to iron they arent go to be sharing with the every single person that comes along. life is like that. people do what ever it takes to survive in the real world when it comes to food. i think if you add to much at once it will discurage new players and eventualy turn cantr into another one of those rpgs you find all thru out the net. that is one thing about cantr which i used to like it was completely different than all of the crap you found on the net. now in alot of ways it resembles a little of almost all the rpgs out there in my view.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Businesses form in cantr because some people want power. Unlike naturally where businesses form out of necessity and then become corrupted. Employees come to jobs in cantr because they are trying to add realism, because it's "what people do." Not because they need to survive. Food is free! Nobody'll buy food if they can go get iron, get wood, make a dung fork, and feed themselves for a year by somehow magically sprouting carrots from the ground. The ease to not only survive but be better off without society has always pulled at the back of my mind as something that needed to be fixed. It wouldn't make life more difficult for anyone with these changes, just different. People would have to actually live like semi-normal people now, instead of spawning, finding where iron is, getting it, making steel, and then making weapons. As it is, most of the chars I've seen recently have done that. Nobody buys things because there's no reason to. Tools? Why go to a hardware store when it's easier to make it yourself? And food? Who cares? Why not just eliminate it to the game, since it's so ridiculously easy to feed oneself. A loner should have to actually spend time getting food, not have days on end to work on building machinery! Most of my chars are loners now because it's easier for them to survive on their own. It just isn't fun, everyone does their own thing and ignores everyone else.

[Meh]

And I am a little late to the battle but they real reasons to start a business need to represented.

Basically the farther we get away for each person being able to do everything themselves the better in my opnion. There is a limit to that. You should be able to switch jobs if giving the right tools and equipment.

If you want to do everything by yourself play CIV. It gets very boring.

If you want to do everything on your own with others play CIV online. I can only imagine how that is. Ick.

Locations, people, groups should be specialized not as much as in modern times but so people could actaully have an advatage being a farmer, it takes great cooperation to build an army not just a dozen armed people hording the limestone in a region and thier slaves.

Goverments should be based on more than "we have the sabres at this location". Goverments should have to deal with real multi locational issues not just kill off the surrounding locations. Trade or come up with a system of mutli location goverment. This can only happen if they need something out of each location.

And I am not saying thay characters should change. But what they have to deal with should.

It is just too easy to have a bunch of locations not interacting now.

There needs to be something in the game to help build real states.

Unless you want everyone just to move to the iron locations.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

I despise most of the changes in the game now. They just make me move my chars and make them more selfish. There are very few characters of mine that will honestly help someone else because the resources are no longer as easy to come by. I think that looting will became the usual very soon when people really realize that iron isn't so available. Right now I have a character that has massive amounts of iron,and she knows there is no more,so is she going to share? NO WAY.

[Meh]

It is not about sharing.

It is about providing something of more value to someone else than they can do on thier own. The iron you sit on for good reason should be used to finacee a real business or estate. Right now there is nothing for you to do but keep it. What could anyone offer you for iron besides steel which they would need iron for.

[Spider]

The only change i hate is the fighting one, just cuz i don't understand it and its so weird.....i guess i'll be getting my self a hunting bow.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

Ahh..but when there was iron,she would be willing to trade for things like diamonds,coal,silver,gold,rubber,wood, meat,mushrooms,popcorn,hi de,fur,or anything that wasn't found in the immediate area.I think it was really cool when things weren't so limited,then people would trade more when they knew they could get more. People in that area weren't really interested in getting things thereselves as much as they were getting things quickly. That is why people liked working on the iron drill there,they got paid more than they could dig for even with a pickaxe.

[new.vogue.nightmare]

But nobody would trade for food. Food is just something you can get on your own. The only reason anybody starts any kind of business is because the players think it'd be cool, not out of necessity for the chars. In cantr, a char can have a perfectly happy existence working one day a week. The only reason societies and businesses form in reality is because people will starve if they don't either work together as a single entity, or work constantly alone. And if you work constantly alone, all your work is for food practically. You rarely have days where you can choose what you want to do.