Origins of Holidays - Split from Thanksgiving post.

[Schme]

But, wich came first? old hollow's eve, or the... shenta... thing.

Halloween.

Not all. Jesus resurecting was a verry new idea at the time.

No, actually. The same basic story was around about a thousand years before Christ, with a bunch of different names.

Hanika is an origonal religion. CRistnmass is origonal.

Hanukah is not a religion, it’s a religious festival. Christmass is not original. It was taken from things that were the same deal. They just didn’t call it Christmass, mostly because English wasn’t around at the time.

I think lent is origonal. HEY!!!

So?

Mardi grass was stolen from the catholics. (hehe, got one)

It wasn’t stolen. The people who founded New Orleans were Catholic.

[Chris Johnson]

Mardi grass was stolen from the catholics. (hehe, got one)

It wasn’t stolen. The people who founded New Orleans were Catholic.

Quite true - though many aspects of Mardi Gras are very similar to the Roman Saturnalia which predates lent by a few centuries - held at different times of the year but has a lot of common of elements , especially a festival held prior to a time of relative austerity whether it's the onset of winter or the lean times of lent.

[Schme]

Wow. I hadn't known that. Nice.

[rklenseth]

One should also note that Christmas, as it is known today, is purely an American invention. Originally the Winter Soliste Festival that was celebrated in much of Europe (this idea can also be traced back to pagans although it was also celebrated by other people for example the Romans who were not pagan) in which people would usually get very drunk and disorderly. In the 1800's, the American government had had enough with this celebrating in which riots ensued almost every year so the Congress decided to mark the day as the day that would be used to celebrate Christ's birth (even though Christ was born in I believe in July equilivant to those time period calenders but don't quote me on that). Much of the Christian religions in America took to the idea since there wasn't really any holiday celebrating Christ's birth. The idea worked since no good Christian would go out and get drunk on the day celebrating Christ's Birth and over the past 150+ years it has transformed into a major holiday accepted worldwide by most Christians.

[Elros]

Ok first of all just to comment on everyone saying that this holiday was stolen from that group ect..

You can go back in the history of the earth, and about find some sort of Holiday on every day of the year. With that said, the Holiday that is celebrated now, stands for what it was designed to be. Thanksgiving is about giving thanks to God for everything we have. Why? Because the current Thanksgiving Day was established in memory of what the pilgrims celebrated. It doesn't matter if some Pagan religion had a holiday 3000 years ago that was on the 4th thursday of November. Same goes for every other holiday in the year.

Rklenseth was right about how Christmas came about. I don't know if all the details were exactly accurate, because I don't know them myself, but his whole idea was true. We do not know for sure what day Jesus was born, so the current holiday known as Christmas was established to celebrate it. Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if some pagan religion a long time ago had a holiday on December 25th, what matters is what the Holiday means today, and most of all what the holiday means to the person celebrating it.

[Antichrist_Online]

Elros, we're using "stolen" in a flipant (I think that's the right word) sense. We really mean adapted from, changed and then resold as a new one.

/Rant: The real reason this thread started is because of a lot of people complaining "This is a chirstian holiday" at this time of year and trying to ram Jesus down my throat. (Three different sects have been to my door this week). I don't care what people believe, that's thier choice, but they need to understand that the whole lot overlaps and to stop getting offended by other people doing something similar for different reasons. Just be happy we all get a day off work, and try to do some good in it and that doesn't mean dragging your kids round my house at 9am to tell me about how God loves me and the evils in the world are the fault of people like me. /EndRant

[rklenseth]

Usually when the Jehovah Witnesses come to the door I just tell them I'm Catholic and they go away. I'm not sure why but they don't seem to be fond of Catholics. I've learned my lesson that Mormons don't like Catholics very much either.

[Zanthos]

Neither do Lutherans or Baptists...

Actually, to be fair, most protestants hate us for some reason. They all preach tolerance, but sure have a hard time practicing it for someone who worships the same god.

[Elros]

Zanthos, I am 100% Baptist, and I do not hate Catholics at all. I do not agree with what they teach of course, but I have no hatred towards them whatsoever. Neither does any other Baptists I know. Maybe some Catholics confuse us trying to preach the gospel that we believe to you as hating you, but that is not the case whatsoever. We love you, and that is why we try to witness to you. If we hated you then we would have nothing to do with you, and just say "Ah lets let them go burn in hell, I hate them so I am not going to try to show them the gospel of Jesus Christ, or the love of God!"

The fact that we try to witness to you is the obvious proof that we do care for you.

[Schme]

Exactly. You'd think people would appreciate people trying to save their soul. I mean, honestly, people are only trying to help, and I mean that.

[Elros]

Well thanks Schme, I am glad someone understands. It is nice to hear that from someone every once in a while.

[Zanthos]

What I am trying to say Elros, is that I know a great many baptists absolutley hate catholics. Expecially southern baptists.

My AP Environemntal Science teacher has had his own door slammed in his face by a baptist who invited him to her church - she slammed it when he said he was catholic.

[Antichrist_Online]

It doesn't help when you are an Asatru priest (Norse revival paganism), and turn up to the door in a long green mages robe (which I wear as a dressing jacket/house robe).

Back on topic slightly, the local government has recieve lots of letters complaining that they are having a "Winter festival" instead of Christmas, so that it's not picking up only one groups celebration. Same with the stamps. However instead of saying "We've chosen non-Christian images to aknowledge other religions having their holidays at the same time of the year." They said "We have chosen non-Christian images to avoid offending those who don't celebrate Christmas." The first I could accept, it's a message of "There's lots of people with different views, we don't want to pick on a section of them", the second is "There are a minority who dislike what we do, we won't offend them." The later irritates me greatly.

[formerly known as hf]

There have been winter celebrations for centuries upon centuries.

Christmas was a developed as a day to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.
If a new holiday is to be creaed - it is most easiest just to appropriate a time of the year already set aside for celebration. Christmas is when it is (like Haloween) because of centuries of celebration. It was changed to symbolise something different.

A contemporary Christmas has as much to do with the birth of Jesus Christ as individuals choose.

And most individuals choose to have very little to do with the religion side of things - and use it as an excuse for a good time and consumption of food and presents - much to the joy of retailers.



Pop quiz:
Why is Santa's jacket red?

[deadboy]

Pop quiz:
Why is Santa's jacket red?

Coca cola decided it would be so

Anyhow, on the topic of Christman being original, well, date wise, no, it's the winter solstace, religion wise, maybe, although I'm sure that there are plenty of religious holidays that celebrate the birth of something or other

However, literally wise, it is completely new as it was the very first religious holiday to be centred almost purely on capitalist consumerism, and god do I love it for that