Is profanity allowed?

[SekoETC]

I couldn't agree more. I feel irritated by excessive swearing but in Cantr, some characters couldn't be realistic if they were speaking like "Gosh golly, you just hit me! Aren't you a reckless rascal... I think I shall tickle thine buttocks with me battle axe." Well... actually, that would be a good role as well. But certainly not for someone with short temper.

[Talapus]

Words that are considered by some to be "profane", like all words, are simply vocalizations that people have arbitrarily assigned some meaning or conveyed idea. As such, the words themselves are not evil, disgusting, profane, or offensive. I can understand people being offended by the concept that is conveyed, but those people should be equally offended by the words that many use to replace those "profane" words (since the intent and meaning usually remains the same). People showing preference for these replacement words confuses me greatly since I can perceive no logic behind such a choice.

[sanchez]

Some words have a lot more rl baggage. Which is exactly why they are more effective.

[SekoETC]

Something like CRap with the hard C and the sharp R, or SHIt with the mad hissing, sounds much more convincing than some "son-of-a-diddly". So if the replacement words have softer consonants, their effect is lower.

[DELGRAD]

Yes foul language is ok, if that is what your character would say and as long as it doesn't become excesive.
I do agree that words are only as foul as one makes them. I mean the reader.
Flanders: "diddley"
Homer: "Doh"

[Talapus]

Some words have a lot more rl baggage. Which is exactly why they are more effective.

So you find some words offensive because other people think they are offensive? That is just self-perpetuating nonsense, and you know it.

Something like CRap with the hard C and the sharp R, or SHIt with the mad hissing, sounds much more convincing than some "son-of-a-diddly". So if the replacement words have softer consonants, their effect is lower.

So you find those words offenseive because they are better able to articulate the emotions a person is feeling? The worst I can gather from that is a simple case of over-emphasizing, which is hardly the horror that many seem to place on these words.

[Phalynx]

Some words have a lot more rl baggage. Which is exactly why they are more effective.

So you find some words offensive because other people think they are offensive? That is just self-perpetuating nonsense, and you know it.

Rubbish. Cunt is a word like this. I work in an environment where swearing is the norm both in the people I work with and my colleagues. Some clients will fit more fucks in a sentence than you would believe possible. And yet if people say the C word, a client said it once, and a couple of colleagues have in extreme agner called my manager it, without fail every woman in the room will say something like "I don't like that word" or even leave the room.
I have no idea why its last bastion of offence but it is, which is why when someone gets called a cunt you know someone is really pissed off.

[sanchez]

Some words have a lot more rl baggage. Which is exactly why they are more effective.

So you find some words offensive because other people think they are offensive? That is just self-perpetuating nonsense, and you know it.

Rubbish. Cunt is a word like this. I work in an environment where swearing is the norm both in the people I work with and my colleagues. Some clients will fit more fucks in a sentence than you would believe possible. And yet if people say the C word, a client said it once, and a couple of colleagues have in extreme agner called my manager it, without fail every woman in the room will say something like "I don't like that word" or even leave the room.
I have no idea why its last bastion of offence but it is, which is why when someone gets called a cunt you know someone is really pissed off.

Exactly.

Talapus, you have never heard these words used in a rl context that was upsetting? It's those associations to which I am referring... part of the meaning for most people.

And now I get to thank Phalynx for using the word 'cunt'.

[Talapus]

Talapus, you have never heard these words used in a rl context that was upsetting?

If some one were to call another person a "jerk" with the same intent as if they said "cunt" I would find it equally offensive. As I mentioned before, it is not the words themselves that offend me, but the implied meaning of those words.

It's those associations to which I am referring... part of the meaning for most people.

And I find those associations to be baseless and therefore I refuse to conform to that unjustifiable school of thought.

[sanchez]

How can you deny pragmatic interpretation? lol

[formerly known as hf]

Talapus is right.
No word is innately offensive.

Cunt means nothing to anyone but English speakers. Other societies and languages have different words used to offend.

It is arguable that a society/language needs deeply offensive words. Words which have the ability to shock, hurt and anger just at their utterance. Why some words reach this pinnacle of profanity against others is to do with the historical development of that language.

There is no logical explanation That talapus might look for - but there is a rationale, simply that we are embedded in a society which considers these words to be highly offensive. Words have meanings beyond what they describe - they can convey other things. Learning this is part of learning a language. An inidivudal learns that cunt is offensive, because they learn the language.

Personally, I agree with Talapus that, at the end of the day, they are just words. And (as I continually enjoy pointing out) the meanings of words are far from stone-set

[SekoETC]

Umm, wtf were you talking about Talapus? I was just talking about phonetics.

And it's the tone of the voice too... Swearing is usually associated with negative emotions. I hate it when people laugh and swear at the same time, that's totally unnatural... Anyway, if you used a word that would be totally abstract, you would have to include *emoting* to go along with it to convey the emotion. While as using a word that has a load irl will convey the approximate emotion without emoting. It's not like *I* would be sparing emotes, but since some people seem to be impaired on that sector, the words they use get a higher meaning.

Oh and try expressing anger with words that use only soft consonants, such as "mama" and "bebe". Shouting and frowning might get the message through but not as effectively as using a sharp word such as SCHARP or PRITZ or KUGH.

Oh and once someone got mad at me in this one game because I promised them free gold if they'd come to this one location, and then I didn't notice they'd arrived because there was so much other chatter, so they killed my character to catch my attention (in that game you get resurrected right after so it doesn't matter). Anyway, I was offended by being attacked and said I won't give him the gold because he killed me. And he got mad and started swearing a lot, it went something like "paki shit". And even though I didn't know what "paki" means, it was just as offensive as shit.

[Pie]

Son-of-a-motherles-goat.

[Nalaris]

I didn't read much of this, but I think I've got the general gist of the recent arguments.

My personal opinion is that in order to play a role, several characters will need to swear. Banning profanity entirely would be like banning violence because violence doesn't solve anything (except tyrannical rule by an oppressive king and other countries failing to acknowledge you as a political entity and your friends being attacked by a mad dictator bent on conquering half the world and the dissolution of smaller nations into utter anarchy and abolishing slavery and protecting your family from ruthless greedy butchers and protecting your family from the tyrannical king mentioned at the beginning who's now trying to go and take back all the land the war just took from him, and ANOTHER mad dictator trying to conquer the ENTIRE world, and...you know what, never mind).

But people shouldn't swear just because they can, because regardless of WHY they offend people, they will offend people, and regardless of what else they can mean, their original meaning (except in the cases of H*** and D***) were to offend.

Some of them don't even HAVE alternate meanings (these are generally considered the worst.

Swear words should also be reserved for times when 'it can't get much worse than this', or they'll lose their power. If a character swears every time he stubs his toe, it won't seem much more dramatic when his hand gets cut off and he starts swearing about it.

[psymann]

Some of them don't even HAVE alternate meanings (these are generally considered the worst.

I'm intrigued - which ones?

psymann