Character descriptions

[SekoETC]

NATURALLY characters that already exist should be given a chance to be described as the player desires, within some reason.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I don't understand why we need to have descriptions at all. It has nothing at all to do with the game mechanics and doesn't even really effect roleplaying.

To quote phalynx from earlier , finally the voice of sanity . I like the fact that that I've built a mental picture of both the characters I play and the ones I interact with - it may not be what the other person thinks of my characters or their own but it's a reality which works for me , I don't want to have something taken away from my imagination . Thank you Marian

I'll go with this. I'm gonna imagine my chars and others how they come off to me by their personality and my interaction with them regardless of whether I can make/see a description about them or not (or whether it's a forced genetic thing or whatnot). Some people even rp some little bits of description here and there anyway, which is how I think it should be if they want a particular feature to stand out like a scar or eye colour. I don't really mind the suggestion of an optional box thing, but would draw the line at forced, randomized visual genetics and descriptions (for new or old characters).

[Marian]

And? That doesn't help newspawns.

If all characters could choose their description, well okay it'd still be a completely pointless distraction in a game that still has plenty of actual important things that needs to be added first, but at least it won't breed suicidal newspawns faster than skills already do and it would merely a mild annoyance instead of a roadblock to freedom in roleplay...

[SekoETC]

Implement a disable showing of all character info boxes, just like for the pictures. There are two totally different things here.


I guess it just proves that NOTHING can be added to a game in progress without people complaining. I wonder if there was similar whining when clothes were introduced. Like, that was robbing people the chance of coming up with clothing.

[Crosshair]

*cheers for Seko*

[Marian]

I guess it just proves that NOTHING can be added to a game in progress without people complaining. I wonder if there was similar whining when clothes were introduced. Like, that was robbing people the chance of coming up with clothing.

You mean newspawns are randomly assigned clothing that they can't ever take off now? When did that happen? I guess it's been awhile since I made a new char....

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I guess it just proves that NOTHING can be added to a game in progress without people complaining. I wonder if there was similar whining when clothes were introduced. Like, that was robbing people the chance of coming up with clothing.

Or rather, nothing can be added to a game in progress without people stating their differing opinions on a subject. Of course not. Not when you have 75 different opinions from active forum browsers/posters alone (not to mention other active forumers from other language groups on the forum that may not post in here because of not knowing/not feeling comfortable with English) and who knows how many silent opinions of people (Somewhere around 1000? A little less? Just guessing on the numbers. Big difference in any case.) that don't even post on the forums. Everyone comes to the game to get something different out of it; there's no way they're going to see eye to eye on every implementation. Each implementation hinders some people and helps others.

This is something I'd consider more controversial than clothing though. I don't look at all of this as complaining though, so much as just opinions that are being told, for better or for worse to the benefit (or disgruntlement) of the person reading them.

[Marian]

Right. It hasn't been implemented or even accepted, so it's not anyone is complaining about it. You made a suggestion stating your opinion about how thiungs should be, so now people are stating their opinions in return. And for me at least since it's an opinion I feel strongly about, and I'm sure that's come out in my post.

[Crosshair]

hmmh... Well I still think it should be optional weather people want to see it or not. Optional, vetted, and sensible.

[psymann]

The Reason why I think we should be able to have a Description of Appearance:

I don't understand why we need to have descriptions at all. It has nothing at all to do with the game mechanics and doesn't even really effect roleplaying.

This is not a pointless thing and it does affect roleplaying. I have a character who I imagine to be large, rough, bearded, and altogether fairly scraggy. It really cocks up my RP when some sod turns up from the next village, and says "Hey Handsome" to me, or *gives food to the tall dark stranger*.
Similarly, say I had a female character who was fat and ugly. Someone coming along and saying "Hello pretty lady *smiles adoringly*" which is the sort of thing that happens, just makes no sense at all to me. Generally, people seem to assume that all characters are pretty (presumably as it's an insult to say they're not if their player thinks they are) but this makes it hard to play an ugly character when they keep getting told how pretty they are.
If I have a really tall character, I would almost expect other characters to notice and comment on it - but of course they don't/can't as they have no idea. And I can't start every line to a new character with "*looks tall* Hello!"

For me, this thing has nothing to do with race relations or any of that, it's just a case of making the RP make sense logically.

So having completely disagreed with Marian, I'm now going to completely agree with her:



The Reason I think appearance should Not Be From Genes.

My characters appearence is something that grows in my mind as there personality develops, it's a personal thing and the game is not going to tell me that my Incan looking girl is a blond or that my short and slightly pudgy redhead is a tall brunette.

I do agree completely with this. It's bad enough with the skills.

I want to be able to create a character that is interesting. I might decide I want to create a female character called Aga who is short and dumpy and loves to cook.

Now the ways these things are implemented is very differing:
- Name: I can choose this. Aga she is. I pick the name, not the parents.
- Sex: I can choose this. I choose her to be female. No genes involved here saying "congratulations, you've got a baby boy!"
- Size and Shape: I can't do anything with this. I am free to choose it but not lay it down in stone, so every other player can choose it to be different, so this currently is impossible to work with properly.
- Ability at cooking: This is possible to indicate (the skills) but not possible to choose (due to genes).


What I'd like, in order to be able to create a character that I like and want to play (and therefore to keep me enthused and wanting to play the game) is:

- To be able to choose the sex (which I can, great )
- To be able to choose one or maybe two skills which the character Is or isn't crap at, for instance I can say that my cook isn't going to be crap at cooking but is going to be crap at hunting (so she could be efficient, skillful or expert at cooking, and novice or awkward at hunting) Sure, leave the rest to genetics, but at least let me choose my sperm/egg donor based on something
- To be able to choose the name of my character (which I can, great )
- To be able to choose at least a rough outline of the appearance of my character (which I can't ).

And if everyone chooses to be good at fighting, then that's just an indication that the fighting bonus is too large and for me that's a separate point to deal with elsewhere.

Allow me to design (at least in part) a character I want to play, and I'm more likely to stick around in the game to play it. If it takes me 15 attempts at spawning to get someone who is female, fat and good at cooking, then that's going to be 14 random newspawns left to die, and the end result is exactly the same - I get my fat cook.

psymann

[Phalynx]

I can't work out what the discussion is actually about:

It started out as a user defined character description.
This was ruled out because it couldn't be translated into all game languages routineley, DENIED

There was then talk of genteic characterstics predetermined according to where you spawned or what language group you were.
People don't like that because they basically have very little say about appearance. Imagine if English language area was basically hobbit like and the Pole got to be Norse gods and godesses. Another bunch of unhappy players. DENIED

Then drop down menus of descriptors, size, eye colour hair colour. Then no-one is happy because this is basically too samey and prescriptive, the differences being so miniscule as to remove individuality and the whole point of the exercise. If you want a design a character game there are plenty out there so go figure. DENIED

I remember other threads suggesting custom avatars or descriptive pictures, but these would require masses of manpower to vet and would cause endless arguements. DENIED

I can't see there is much left to discuss is there? We stick with what we have!

[psymann]

Then drop down menus of descriptors, size, eye colour hair colour. Then no-one is happy because this is basically too samey and prescriptive, the differences being so miniscule as to remove individuality and the whole point of the exercise. If you want a design a character game there are plenty out there so go figure.

I can't see there is much left to discuss is there? We stick with what we have!

Did people actually say that they didn't want drop-down menus because they were too samey? Given the choice of menus or nothing, I'd rather have menus. At least then I can give a hint of the way my character appears. Maybe I missed the posts that said they didn't want this as I did read through the whole six pages quite swiftly.

And just because we haven't yet come up with a solution that people can all agree on does not mean we give up and stick with what we have.

Advisor 1: There's a missle heading towards us, Captain
Captain: What can we do?
Advisor 1: Let's blow it up!
Captain: No we'll probably blow ourselves up at the same time
Advisor 1: Let's run away!
Captain: We probably can't go fast enough
Advisor 1: Let's deflect it
Captain: It's probably too strong to deflect
Advisor 2: Well since we can't blow it up, we can't run away and we can't deflect it, I say the best thing to do is just continue as we are, let's enjoy the missile and welcome it on board. Bound to work, that.
Captain: Excellent idea. Hold position! Break open the wine!


psymann

[Phalynx]

And just because we haven't yet come up with a solution that people can all agree on does not mean we give up and stick with what we have.

Advisor 1: There's a missle heading towards us, Captain
Captain: What can we do?
Advisor 1: Let's blow it up!
Captain: No we'll probably blow ourselves up at the same time
Advisor 1: Let's run away!
Captain: We probably can't go fast enough
Advisor 1: Let's deflect it
Captain: It's probably too strong to deflect
Advisor 2: Well since we can't blow it up, we can't run away and we can't deflect it, I say the best thing to do is just continue as we are, let's enjoy the missile and welcome it on board. Bound to work, that.
Captain: Excellent idea. Hold position! Break open the wine!


psymann

Have you been hanging round my office...

I guess I mean this has gone way off-topic, the original suggestion is dead... some of the follow ons maybe deserve their own thread?

Did people actually say that they didn't want drop-down menus because they were too samey?

But a list of things to choose would totally destroy the creative possibilities of this idea. ..... If character descriptions were limited to a list, you'd have them like text versions of Yahoo avatars. .

Seko started the thread, she's in RD and she don't like it!

In fairness of all the options I prefer the drop down menu.. basic descriptions idea, but I am sensible enough to know the big hitters in this place will never go for it.

[Marian]

I think I could be happy with just a short drop down list to choose from. It would avoid situations like psymann mentioned, give you something to work with and build on as far as getting a basic picture of other people in your head goes, and it would probably come in handy for describing thieves or whatever. Why would you need anything more then that? (I'm actually wondering if this desire to have really detailed descriptions is a holdover from forum games or muds where everybody wants to write three poorly written front and back pages describing everything from their char's haircut down to each individual toe. In most cases the only person interested in even half of that is the author...)

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I posted this somewhere before, but the dropdown boxes could have:

Eyes: brown, blue, green, grey, or black

Hair: black, brown, red, blonde, white, bald

Height: tall, average, short

Build: skinny, slender, average, heavy, fat

Yes I realize you're going to wind up with people in their nineties with red hair and people in their twenties with white hair, but so what? Honestly I really think the reason nothing like this will ever get added is because everyone always comes up with super complicated and completely unworkable suggestions.

Simple is better! And not only is it better, it's more likely to get added. Just take a look at the Implemented forum, how many of those things are drastic changes to the way the game works?

[psymann]

In terms of implementation I'd suggest this:

Phase One:

Eyes: brown, blue, green, grey, or black

Hair: black, brown, red, blonde, white, bald

Height: tall, average, short

Build: skinny, slender, average, heavy, fat

And I'd also personally add something like: Facial appearance: Attractive, plain, ugly... though I accept maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

These can be chosen at character registration and that's it. They just sit there on your description. Simple.


Phase Two:

Turn those into sentences so it looks better. Eg:
"He is tall and blond, with blue eyes. He is skinny and has a plain face"


Phase Three:

Sort out the ageing hair:

- don't let newspawns choose to be white or grey haired.
- as you get to fifties, make it go grey, or white, or fall out.


Phase Four:

Add playing with hair:

- make combs
- use scissors and combs to cut hair
- always allow cutting shorter, and then hair can gradually grow longer over time - so if you want your short hair you need to cut it every few days/years.
- allow styles that you can make using a comb, eg wavy, straight, etc


Phase Five:

Allow dieting. Not sure how this would work exactly, but either you can choose to increase/decrease your person's size every few days, to simulate weight gain/loss, or you can do it through food. If you eat more food than you require each day, you get fat. If you are often hungry, you get thinner. You can even go as far as saying if you eat particular foods, you get fat maybe.


Phase Six:

Something else clever someone thinks of.



Anyway, it doesn't matter if you never get as far as Phase Five or Six. Just start with Phase One, and then get round to Phase Two at a later date. I think this would make it simple and do-able.

psymann