Religion

[formerly known as hf]

Let me ask you a question. Do you belive that George Washington was the first President? Do you believe that we landed on the Moon? Do you believe that there are Great White Sharks in the ocean?

All of the things above you ave not seen with your own eyes, and "Men" wrote about all of it, but you have no problem believing it. You have no "Proof" besides what other men have told you. You belive all these things and 100's more without hesitation. So why is it so hard for you to believe in God?

Was the birth of Jesus on TV?

Are there hundreds and thousands of contemporary writings and newspaper clippings which substantiate the Bible?

You sounded intelligent, Elros, but I'm sure even you can see those comparisons are just plain stupid...

[formerly known as hf]

2. The "discrimination", as you call it, is not unjustified at all. We do "not" hate Homosexuals, but we do hate Homosexuality. There is a difference. It is not the person but the sin that we hate. God hates it(according to the Bible). It is also unnatural. If you took a group of 100 homosexuals and put them on an island all by themselves, and left them there for lets say 100 years. When you came back everyone of them would be dead and their race extinct. Homosexuals cannot reproduce, and all natural creatures reproduce. It is part of life, people die and new ones are born. Thank God everyone is not homosexuals or the whole earth would be extinct of Mankind in one generation from now. That is just 1 reason why Homosexuality "is" unnatural. There are many, many more.

What else is calling something 'unnatrual', judging people as sinners, refusing them equal rights, if not "discrimination" as I call it?

The old argument 'we'd all die out if everyone was gay' is about as flimsy as they come.
Everyone is not gay, there will never be a time when evryone is gay. The human race is far from 'under threat' by rampaging non-reproducing homosexuality. So the argment falls on its face as just pointless - why even bring it up.

'There's no reproduction, so it's unnatrual'
Do you have a sexual partner, Elros? Have you ever? Please tell me you feel there is more to sex than 'reproduction'? Else I pity whoever you may ever share your bed with.
Surely there is nothing more natural than loving someone, wanting to be physically close with them?


I know I'm wasting my energy typing this, as I know some people are just damned blindedly bigoted they'll justify anything as non-discriminatory and 'ok' based on the Bible.



I am very thankful the world is not full of bigoted Christians like yourself, or similar Muslims. A world full of homosexuals might not last as long, but at least women would have equal rights, and people wouldn't be persecuted based upon their sexuality, colour of their skin, or the name they give to their god. It'd be a damned more peaceable and happier place.




Don't forget to stone the raped virgin who didn't scream loud enough whilst you're stoning the homosexuals... ([Deuteronomy 22:23-24])

[Elros]

As for the 100 gays in 100 years stipulation, you are basing that on the idea that a malignant genes are actually garrented to die away. A number of ressessive genes inparticular are commonly terminal. More-over, in a reccessed situation the same gene that would cause a man to be homsexual can instead cause a man to just get along better with other men thereby making him more fit to survive and reproduce. It's the same as with sycle-cell aenemia, ressessed it makes you virtually immune to maleria, unressessed, it's ussally fatal.

My point was that after they all die from old age or whatever that they would be extinct because they wouldn't have any offspring. How were you disagreeing with that above? Where you saing that a man could have a kid?

[Elros]

I am very thankful the world is not full of bigoted Christians like yourself, or similar Muslims. A world full of homosexuals might not last as long, but at least women would have equal rights, and people wouldn't be persecuted based upon their sexuality, colour of their skin, or the name they give to their god. It'd be a damned more peaceable and happier place.

Well lets see here... You said that without christians people would not be persecuted for the name they give to their God. Well what do you call everthing you have been saying and to me and Dee and the others that "name our God". It looks like you, which are no where near a christian, is the one that is "persecuting" as you call it the people that "chose to name their God". So don't go judging christians when you are doing the same thing that you are condeming. I myself have no problem being "persecuted" as you call it for my Faith in God. I expect it. So I am not "whining and asking you to stop picking on me", I am just pointing out that the same thing that you say you hate, is what you are doing right now.

[Elros]

Do you have a sexual partner, Elros? Have you ever? Please tell me you feel there is more to sex than 'reproduction'? Else I pity whoever you may ever share your bed with.

About the above topic, I am only 17 years old so I do not "share a bed" with anyone yet. However I did not say that sex was only for reproduction. That is a stupid statement. All I said is that if you look around at all nature, reproduction is one of its traits.

[Piscator]

I don't understand the whole natural or not debate. Everything is a part of nature, so how could something be "unnatural"?

And even if there is such a thing as naturallity, why is it a good thing? Nature does many things that are forbidden by religious laws. So why do you damn homosexuality for not beeing natural and damn killing people and adultery in the same moment, although that are "natural" things.
You could just as well forbid building houses, cars and clothing, because that are "unnatural" things, too.

(By the way, did you know that there are gay animals too? It can't be that "unnatural" )

[formerly known as hf]

Do you have a sexual partner, Elros? Have you ever? Please tell me you feel there is more to sex than 'reproduction'? Else I pity whoever you may ever share your bed with.

About the above topic, I am only 17 years old so I do not "share a bed" with anyone yet. However I did not say that sex was only for reproduction. That is a stupid statement. All I said is that if you look around at all nature, reproduction is one of its traits.

You said that it was unnatural because homosexual relations do not lead to reproduction - implying that that's all sex is good for...

[Nalaris]

We've been through the gay argument already, somewhere back in the forty-ish pages, I think.

I'm quite sick of people trying to say that Christ never existed. Pie already disproved several of those theories (i.e. historical documents say that Christianity existed before HF claims it was created, and they were obviously around at least 135 years before the third century because Nero was killing them circa 65 AD).

For the record, I don't support stoning gays, burning people at the stake for parlor tricks or stabbing to death every sinner I see (because that would constitute both homicide and suicide, which are both sins in and of themselves).

[formerly known as hf]

I am very thankful the world is not full of bigoted Christians like yourself, or similar Muslims. A world full of homosexuals might not last as long, but at least women would have equal rights, and people wouldn't be persecuted based upon their sexuality, colour of their skin, or the name they give to their god. It'd be a damned more peaceable and happier place.

Well lets see here... You said that without christians people would not be persecuted for the name they give to their God. Well what do you call everthing you have been saying and to me and Dee and the others that "name our God". It looks like you, which are no where near a christian, is the one that is "persecuting" as you call it the people that "chose to name their God". So don't go judging christians when you are doing the same thing that you are condeming. I myself have no problem being "persecuted" as you call it for my Faith in God. I expect it. So I am not "whining and asking you to stop picking on me", I am just pointing out that the same thing that you say you hate, is what you are doing right now.

I judge Chritians and Muslims, I hold negative opinions of the people and their beliefs, yes.

But I do not actively persecute them.


I would argue you are wrong in you beliefs - but I would not deny you your right to hold and follow those ebliefs.

I would not deny you the right to declare their love in the form of partnership in the eyes of national law.

I would not deny you the right to equal job opportunities.

I would not deny you the right to work with children.

I would not deny you the right to join the armed forces.

I would not declare you sinners, and perpetuate, or even be involved in, physical violence against them.


I may condem your beliefs as plain stupid, in my opinion, but even in my pedjudiced opinion, that does not make you unworthy of the rights we all share as human beings.

I would never condem your beliefs as sinful or unnatural, perpetuatuating a situation of discrimination and violence.


Our society has deeply ingrained discrimination against homosexuals, who are denied many of the things I have listed above, and are subject to much harrassment, abuse, even murder.


Bigoted views, perpetuated by people such as yourself, serve to enforce the views which lead to discriminatory acts. Even though you may not be involved in active discrimination, by holding and expressing those views, you perpetuate this ingrained discrimination.

There is no ingrained discrimination of Christians in our western society for my views to perpetuate.

[formerly known as hf]

We've been through the gay argument already, somewhere back in the forty-ish pages, I think.

I'm quite sick of people trying to say that Christ never existed. Pie already disproved several of those theories (i.e. historical documents say that Christianity existed before HF claims it was created, and they were obviously around at least 135 years before the third century because Nero was killing them circa 65 AD).

I am of the opinion that a Christ-like figure probably did exist, I do deny he was the son of God, was resurrected, was able to perform miracles etc etc.

There's more corrobatory evidence for the existence of Mohammed.


Archaeologists found the site Troy, and are very close to finding the site of Odeyseuss' palace, Ithica. Both of which have provided more hard-evidence for the Illiad and Odessyus myths than exists for the Bible, but that's largely because the Bible has been re-written to a much greater extent than Homer's work, and utterly falsified passages have been rammed-in all over the place (The oldest texts relating to the Bible cover about 10% of what it currently is - even the oldest edition of the Bible is about 2/3 of the current editions) and as such, it's unlikely that hard evidence from 0-60AD will substantiate additoins added during the 13-17th centuries.



But just because they found hard evidence for Troy, does not mean the Goddess Athena came down and helped lead the Greecian armed forces...

[Elros]

For the record, I don't support stoning gays, burning people at the stake for parlor tricks or stabbing to death every sinner I see (because that would constitute both homicide and suicide, which are both sins in and of themselves).

Who here does?

[Elros]

Let me ask you a question "formerly known as hf".

Why is murder, stealing, and lying wrong?

[Piscator]

May I answer this too? As far as I know noone is listening to me anyway, so it won't harm .

It isn't. Not in the sense you think of "wrong". It's just not a clever thing to do if you want to live in peace. If you don't want something done to you, don't do it to others.

[Elros]

May I answer this too? As far as I know noone is listening to me anyway, so it won't harm .

It isn't. Not in the sense you think of "wrong". It's just not a clever thing to do if you want to live in peace. If you don't want something done to you, don't do it to others.

Listen to yourself. *shakes head in digust* You are saying that Murder, Stealing, and Lying are not Wrong???

Well just let me come steal all of your money, kill your family, and lie to you about it. Then I want you to walk up to me after I have done all of that and say "What you did was not wrong". How can you even make such a stupid statement?

[Piscator]

It wouldn't be wrong, it would be stupid. What would I do if you do all this things, I would try to avenge me somehow. And that's nothing you can really want.
At last you would loose more than you have gained so that murdering and stealing is really a poor choice. In this sense murdering and stealing would be "wrong". But that is not an absolute thing. It depends on situation.