Decay durring repair

[Mykey]

In my opinion you are mistaken. I can defend the position.

[Phalynx]

But you're missing my point,

If Ford could develop tools that would need no maintenance and upkeep for their car production, they would do it and make them for themselves. Just as if I could make an everlasting car myself I would and stop having to rely on other people's shoddy work - my car is a tool of my trade not a leisure purchase.

I wasn't referring to the deterioration of product, but deterioration of the means of production, which seems to be the main concern of people in this regard.

[Mykey]

It is excellent idea. It is ready to support you.

[wichita]

This forces trade of a resource: repairs (ie labour) by increasing demand. Subsequently trade/cooperation HAS to increase!

It's all good!

This is what we were waiting for ages to see happen but the masses have refused. It's the reason that Hamilton did not want the President to be elected by the popular vote. The People typically don't know what is good for them. Look at what good came of ignoring that little piece of American history.

Time for plan B.

[Sicofonte]

Our local car plant, recently shut down and bought by a chinese company, employed a small army of maintenance staff to keep the 'tools', that is the assembly line, in full working order. Small mistakes could lead to hours of inactivity, all lost production time and staff sitting on their arses being paid to do nothing. Those maintenance guys were pretty well paid, because without them the plant was always potentially only hours away from a serious problem.

Ok, you said it, a small army. In a factory (forge) you can expect that the amount of workers devoted to the production was bigger than the workers devoted to maintenance. With the actual decay rates you could need one worker for each three tools of your business, the production of everything from limestone to steel will get drastically reduced.
Let's enable the decay during repair mode, but reducing the decay rates too. But I read whichita that they are working on it. Then ok. To spend some days just repairing tools or even losing some of them can't be so bad (but... if you lose 4 crossbows... xD).



Anyway, it seems the issue is clear: The decay during inactive repair is logic and realistic and will be positive for several purposes (colaboration, society, economy) especially when the decay rates were adjusted. No drama.

The only problem then is the need of a way to reduce the deteriorating rate for storage or transport purposes.


STORAGE PROJECT FOR METAL AND WOOD TOOLS

Time requirement: 1 hour
Resource requirements: 10 gr of oil (olive oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, but not petroleum)
Objects needed: the object to be repaired.
Tools needed: none.

After completing the proyect, that object gets changed as "stored object", being still handable but not usable as tool or weapon, and the decay rate gets reduced to the 10% (for example).


PREPARING PROJECT FOR METAL AND WOOD TOOLS

Time requirement: 1 hour
Resource requirement: none.
Objects needed: the stored object.
Tools needed: cloth (rag).



If you have to be working one cantr hour to have something stored, and then another hour to put it ready again, you will need help to store lots of tools. That's ok with the promote-the-collaboration aim.

[Phalynx]

If you have to be working one cantr hour to have something stored, and then another hour to put it ready again, you will need help to store lots of tools. That's ok with the promote-the-collaboration aim.

I have to disagree. It's good that some thought is going into it but what you propose is not significantly different than people putting their tools into 2 hour repair projects to prevent decay, save for the addition of some oil and cloth.

It seems unlikely the ProgD would expend significant effort to reprogram things and then program something that effectively undoes the changes made.

If I were in RD I would suggest something along the lines of this;

Code: Select all

 
Item:        empty Storage crate (requires 1500g of wood)

Project:     store tools (something like above 1 hour per tool)

Item:        Full crate

Project:     seal/close crate - 1 hour project possible only when the crate is full
(either ten items or 90% of weight capacity whichever is easy to program)

Item:        sealed storage crate,
(decay is stopped only when the storage crate is full and sealed)

Project:    Open crate (1 hour)

Item:        full storage crate

Project:    Prepare tools (1 hour per tool remvoed from storage as above)


In this way you make this a considerable underatking, perhaps only engaged in before a very long journey, or to preserve tools related to a specific job.

Just an idea and of course all variables are merely suggestions, but using the above to store ten sabres for a long sea journey would require a storage crate and two lots of 11 hours work, something unlikely without planning and cooperation. It would be nice if deterioration was reduced to the extent that this would rarely be needed!

(NB: storage crates would be ideal for transporting on trains)

[Nakranoth]

Or, make something extraordinarily simple. A tool box. Reduces decay by 5% to tools (not weapons) is buildable only indoors and is lockable... basicaly a snazzy relatively low capacity storage item. Also then haveing a weapons rack that does the same thing but for weapons and shields... Like this the blacksmith can store his specialty tools when he doesn't need them, they take slightly longer to need repair but when all the values are balanced, 5% will go as long of a way as will be needed for all non-primitive tools. Also, by useing a small percentage, they don't undo their own changes, just give players an option to help preserve their things... because honestly, if it takes 11 hours to pack, most people won't, so there will be no grand scale doing of so.

[Sicofonte]

Again, if people works together, that 11 hours could be reduced.

[Nakranoth]

Yes I'm well aware of that, but that 11 hour project does nothing to help the local smith keep his tools in shape... Thus my proposal... Maybe even have both... Oh, and how "full" would it have to be to be defined as "full"... keeping in mind that items aren't sub-dividable in weight.

[Phalynx]

full
(either ten items or 90% of weight capacity whichever is easy to program)

But I plucked that out of thin air.. Its important that the crate is full otherwise, again it become to easy to put things into storage...

Hey it's just an idea, it should be hard to do, even for a blacksmith, sorry but that's the point!

[Nosajimiki]

I'm thinking tool boxes should reduce deterioration by at least 25-50%,otherwize no one will want to invest in them, and I dont think a storage crate should be such a hassle to pack/unpack, I say the storege crate should be able to be sealed at any copacity and take a hammer and (10 grams of iron/steel for nails?) and 1 hour work, and require a crowbar to open. casueing at least 80% deteriorization reduction. Store things you know you wont need for a long time (specailty tools) and rack things you dont need now, but do need often, or expect to need in at moments notice.

Truth is half the tools in this game should barely deteriorate at all, unless left outside or used often. Heck I've seen hammers and stuff that that are 20-50 years old that are still in good conditon, never serviced, one gets left outside for a year then yes it's gone, but this is why I think tool degridation should be highly subjective to it's conditions, b/c that is how they work IRL.

[Sicofonte]

About the realistic fo the process, to put a tool inside a wooden box is not enough to avoid rotting. If you put the box in a moist environment, all the things inside will be damp.

If you use wooden boxes to storage metal things, you should not just seal the box with wax but to prepare the wood for being waterproof.

If you use metalic boxes, to put some rubber in the cover's lock could be enough.

And I remind the suggestion of greasing the tools with oil to avoid both the humidity and the oxidation.

[Piscator]

I still think we need use-based deterioration. Give a tool a sum of durability points and use some of them at each manufacturing action or manufacturing hour (as a quasi-resource). You could give different amounts of points to different tools also, depending on quality.

[wichita]

Working on the use based deterioration, but I seriously doubt anyone is going to enjoy playing through that period of the game history either.

[Sicofonte]

Be calm, guys. When the decay or deteriorating rate were balanced, there won't be any problem. Everyone will be happy. Isn't it, Jos?