Michael Moore

[Missy]

Do any of you know who he is?

Have you ever read any of his books?

What do you think of him?

Have you read, "Dude Where's my Country?"

What did you think of it?

[nitefyre]

I dunno. :C

[Darth Tiberius]

I know who Michael Moore is

Anti-American, hot-headed, self-righteous, naive, and a airhead. That is what he is if I'm not mistaken from what I remember from reading his books if I got the right name to the right face.. He writes political books that try and oppose a supposed "evil empire". He doesn't give a fair representation of both sides.

He isn't nearly as bad as Rush Limbaugh (who is a bigot! And he deserves to be kicked of the radio. Man, I hate him!), Karl Marx (anti-religious naive man), and all the other left or right extremists!

[west]

I saw Moore speak.


He's blatantly manipulative, of course, and he's hypocritical, and he pretends to be a poor working-class shlub when he's actually quite wealthy.

He's funny, and he's got a few good points, but yeah.

[rklenseth]

Don't agree with Michael Moore on a lot of things but I can't say whether I like him or not considering I have never met him. But, yes, most people in the US seem to hate him. Even those that agree with him. Remember when he got booed off the stage at the academy awards by the Liberal Hollywood?

[Missy]

lol

I like him.
I just read "DUDE WHERE'S MY COUNTRY" with in less than a day..I couldn't put it down. I thought he made some incredibly interesting points.

Since it doesn't seem as though anyone else has read it. I guess this is my way of starting a political discussion.

I just want to know what you all think of some things.
1st is

Did you know: That GB I gave his son GWB a company named Arbusto in 1977. In 1978 he received financing from James A Bath, who was hired by Salem bin Laden, Osamas brother, to invest the bin Ladens' money in many Texas business'. 5% of control of Arbusto came from James Bath.

Some of the things the bin Ladens are associated with (The ones from Saudi...) happen to be Citigroup, General Electric, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Fremont Group, Microsoft, and Boeing.

GB I after leaving offices was a consultant for a company known as Carlyle Group. 1 of the investors in the Carlyle Group was the bin Laden family. Investing nearly 2 million dollars into it no less.

This administration can be quoted as saying "We can't paint these bin Ladens with the same brush we use for Osama.These are the good bin Ladens" yet its a known fact they fund Al-Quada. These bin Ladens are "said" to claim that they do not affiliate themselves with Osama, and that they "despise" him.
Yet we have video footage of one of Osamas sons weddings, 6 mo prior to the 9-11 attacks IN Afghanistan, where Osamas mother, a sister, and two brothers can be seen sitting direcly beside Osama bin Laden.
Shafiq bin Laden was at a Carlyle group business meeting in Washington D.C. the morning of Sept 11th.

And--to top matters off, rather than hold these people the Saudi embassy rushed around to get them out of the country as soon as possible. Claiming they feared the bin Ladens would be faced with subjects of hate due to the attacks, and even claiming they weren't material to the US's investigation. They were all in the US at the time of the attacks.



What do you think of that? Do you not believe it? Why doesn't Bush want to discuss his relationship with these people IF he has nothing to hide and there are people like Michael moore who do question GWB and this administration?? If you were under suspicion by the people of your own country for doing "funny business" wouldn't you go to great lengths to show all that you could to prove you had nothing to hide, including telling everything there is to tell about something that seems to me as relevant when there are planes smashing into buildings???
Why can't we paint them with same brush if they are indeed funding Al-Quada? And why would the administration insist we didn't, when they know that?

Maybe I live in the dark? But I sat on the couch hour after hour after hour. And even when i was on my comp I was watching and flipping through the news channels for nearly a year after the attacks. Those stations are to include PBS, NBC, CBS, FOX, and CNN. And the most I heard of the bin Ladens being taken out of the country was about one of osamas brothers. They spoke of one person related to him, when there were indeed many here that were flown off and out of the country.
These people weren't so much as questioned before they were flown off. How does that make you feel? Aren't you the least bit suspicous of these acions? In fact there were 24 people flown out of the country in the days following nine eleven who were either saudi royals or related to osama.
And the reasons for that we are given are "We don't hold people hostage" and "We were scared for their safety" lol yet 3000 poeple had just died because of someone who was related tot hese people? That doesn't make sense to me at all.

Im not saying this to spout liberal views. That seriously doesn't add up to me. And I want to know how the people from the right don't wonder about it? I want to know why we don't demand some sort of explanation and why and how we can just "accept that" oh "we were scared for their safety" line. How do you accept that?
Say we have person A and he flies a plane into one of our buildings, and his brother is living in the same apartment complex as you, and you knew that the brother gave him money to take flying lessons. Wouldn't you want to know more from the brother? Okay. So then why don't people want to know more about this? And why when other people ask about they are looked down upon and considered a bleeding heart liberal who is just in it for the politics. lol. And so I'm expected to just accept the word of our govt that this is all just some hype trying to make bush look bad? Well I'm not the one who has these huge companies where money is invested by Sauid royals. HE IS. Shouldn't he take responsibility for it and just come out and talk of his relationship with these people?
Moer I want to know is how some people can JUST accept thatt here is nothing more than some honest business dealigns going on. We all know when people say that "it's just business" it usually ends up being something more. I want to know how some of you do "just" accept what they tell us. How do you just say.."okay he's doing everything by the book" etc..and never think twice about what is going on?

As much as you may want to think these are "attacks" from some liberal freak. Really i just am curious is all. I want to know how your minds work.

[Darth Tiberius]

I agree with west.

Most of it is minipulative bull. Not that funny. Politics cannot be made into a laughing matter when a firm point is trying to be made. Either one or the other. Not both.

With my political and economic knowledge, I could pick apart errors in his book on both sides easily.

[Lone Wolf]

Is this the same Michale Moore from Bowling for Columbine?

[rklenseth]

Yes, the same.

[Lone Wolf]

Well, I've never read any of his books or anything. I actualy never heard of him until I watched "Bowling for Columbine". It's because of him that I have been doing some research on the gun related violence in the US and the gun related violece in other countries like Canada, England, and Germany. I think the numbers are very sad. But there must be a reason why the numbers are larger in the US

[The Hunter]

But there must be a reason why the numbers are larger in the US

Cuz of the amountof guns in the US? For everyone to buy freely?
Roomie here bought a gun in the US a few years ago, no problem. They didn't even ask for papers! (Ofcourse when she had to pay she said she changed heer mind).
Alcohol is a lot more difficult to come by in sweden as guns are in the US.

[rklenseth]

Guns protect our freedom and in fact most gun regulation is unconstitutional. The right to bear arms and raise a militia is there so that the government won't trample our rights.

Violence is a sad state of humanity and there is nothing you can do against bastards who would use it against you. Somtimes the only thing you can do is fight back.

Now know people claim that violence will go down if guns are gotten rid of. The way I see it, people will kill people with whatever they have if they really want to. That doesn't hide the fact that the government will continue to have guns and if they so deem can trample your rights since what are you going to defend yourself with? Sticks and stone? And that doesn't hide the fact that criminals will still get their hands on guns either. Just because it would be against the law doesn't mean that it will stop them. It will make it harder for them to find them but like drugs and anything else that is illegal it will still find it into the hands of the wrong people.

I plan to own a few guns of my own someday. Maybe do some hunting or target shooting but I'm going to get myself a handgun and wear at my hip in plain view (I don't understand why people always want to hide handguns; the only reason to is if you are an undercover cop or if you're not suppose to have one.).

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Even if guns are made illegal, then, well, all you need are some people who break that law and smuggle guns into the country, and well, there you go--unstoppable. Consider the police shootout in LA where the police couldn't stop two gunmen because of their superior firepower and body armour.


Furthermore, there's the problem of the government being unstoppable then. What other regimes banned firearms? The Third Reich comes to mind...

[Lone Wolf]

You bring up good points. But in Canada, Hand guns are strictly regulated. You can own them but you can't carry them, they are only for home protection and target practice at a licensed gun club. The number of illegal hand guns in canada are very small. Most of the guns in Canada are shotguns. The number of deaths in Canada are also small compared to the US. Even with all these regulations on us the government doesn't stomp on our rights. I mean it is our govenment that gives us medicare. We don't have to pay any medical expences. Any money won or inherited is tax free. We don't need guns to make sure of that. So I still haven't found a valid reason for all of the gun related violence in the US.

[rklenseth]

You bring up good points. But in Canada, Hand guns are strictly regulated. You can own them but you can't carry them, they are only for home protection and target practice at a licensed gun club. The number of illegal hand guns in canada are very small. Most of the guns in Canada are shotguns. The number of deaths in Canada are also small compared to the US. Even with all these regulations on us the government doesn't stomp on our rights. I mean it is our govenment that gives us medicare. We don't have to pay any medical expences. Any money won or inherited is tax free. We don't need guns to make sure of that. So I still haven't found a valid reason for all of the gun related violence in the US.

Governments change.

Yes, we also have very tight regulations of handguns but not so much on rifles or shotguns unless they are automatic or assault types.

Also consider the population difference and density when compared to the US or even individual European countries. Bigger populations and the more dense they are means more violence whether it be gun related or not.