Gayness: Nature or Nurture?

[Dee]

As a relative of mine is now on his death bed (cause of death being aids, because he's gay) I can't help wondering whether gayness is a nature or nurture.

I personally think it's nurture... God created us two different sexes to reproduce, and not all one sex. I don't think it's natural.. We're not born gay.

[Gender]

cause of death being aids, because he's gay

Come on...
Do you really think that this is the cause/effect relation?

[Dee]

Yes. He has AIDS. And he is gay. He confessed.

[Gender]

I'm sneezing right now.
And I'm sitting in an air conditioned room.

There is a POSSIBILY that I caught cold because of the air conditioning, but there is also a possibilty, that i caught it from my girlfriend. Or I inhaled something...

I do not belive, that gaynes is an cause for Aids. It's like "masturbation causes blindness" statements, you could hear back in the 60'.

I would also like to ask you, what is your right to judge people, basing on their sexual preferences? You claim that gay is person that is against nature. Which nature - environment, or his inner nature?

[Dee]

Nature is like the default settings of life... Like how God first created us... Adam and Eve weren't gay.. I know that gayness was found in the very early ages, but there weren't much cases.

The disease could have probably just transfered to him in a course of unsafe sex, but that does not change the fact that AIDS could be caused by gayness.

[SekoETC]

Also heterosexual people can get aids. And I think some people can be gay from birth, although that may be caused by an anomaly in the mother's hormones so it's not a usual state. And a different thing is wether you follow your fancies or not.

[Gender]

There are some things, I would like to say:
Firstly, I think, that there is something that can be called a free will. Free mind. I belive in tolerance. In freedom to be happy.

Freedom in sexual preferences is also included in free will. As long as the freedom does not interfere with the right to freedom of the other people, it should be not restricted. It is a choice to be made by anyone of as, whether I want to take care of a women or a man.

Secondly, nature. You called it a default state. Defaults can be changed by advanced users, so to say. Are we adult enough to do that? I mean, adult for taking care of our psychic?

Thirdly, tolerance. Once again it is strongly attached to freedom. You should be tolerant to other people's actions, as long as it does not interfere with your life. Now the homosexuals are fighting for their right of expressing themselves. They can sometimes be vulgar, and that is certainly a threat to other members of society, because these actions can harm younger people.

On the other side we have a panic reaction. There is a hot topic in polish media, that a regional TV did not want to broadcast music festival because it had "tolerance" in its motto. And it was not tolerance for homosexual behaviours, but tolerance in general meaning. Like - fight with xenofobia, antisemitism, and so on.

[Sunni Daez]

As a relative of mine is now on his death bed (cause of death being aids, because he's gay) I can't help wondering whether gayness is a nature or nurture.

I personally think it's nurture... God created us two different sexes to reproduce, and not all one sex. I don't think it's natural.. We're not born gay.

cause of death being aids, because he's gay

Come on...
Do you really think that this is the cause/effect relation?

Yes. He has AIDS. And he is gay. He confessed.

Being gay is not the cause of AIDS, though he may have contracted it through homosexual activity. There are those, who have never been sexually active, that have contracted AIDS....

To put this in very basic terms... There are people born with both reproductive systems... the parents choose which gender the child shall be.... some are born with male genitalia and an over abundance of female hormone and vice versa.... So many years have passed since God created Adam and Eve... through both natural and genetic manipulation, the use of medications, illegal drugs, research drugs... man has been able to extend the human life... the cost... changing the basics of our structure... but thats what life is...forever changing.

I am not on this earth to judge others for the choices they make. If my brother was to tell me he was gay.. I would not love him any less, I would not try to convince him he is wrong for his choice ...(the same would go for my sister) Who am I to judge who is right or wrong?

as long as the choices of others do not affect my life through action.. I need to deal with my emotions myself...

There is so many things that we can and do judge people for..
race, sexual, age... if you try to push your beliefs on another, it will only push them away... giving your opinion, all fine and well.. but what they choose to do with your opinion is their choice...NOT yours.

If I want to love someone of another race, a different age, or same sex... it is my choice, it is a life I choose to live..as long as my actions do not directly affect anothers life (i.e. murder and theft would) then leave it alone. If you don't wish to support me, that is fine, but do not condem me... as I may not be the only one you hurt...and you may just push me out of your life....

[Peanut]

Judge only thyself for your actions.

[Dee]

Wow... I have no idea how this turned from a single question into an accusation of me being judgemental!!

Please note that I started this thread only to have a discussion about whether gayness is a nature or nurture, not to criticize anyone, and not even to judge anyone. If I wanted to do so, I will say it publicly.

Now, to quote some people:

And a different thing is wether you follow your fancies or not.

But isn't that nurture? I mean, fancies can be controlled, no? If you're a man, what would make you fancy another man, and not a woman? Is it normal to fancy a person that is the sex as you, or is it not? Is that what every one else does? I don't think so. Then it's not nature.

Freedom in sexual preferences is also included in free will. As long as the freedom does not interfere with the right to freedom of the other people, it should be not restricted. It is a choice to be made by anyone of as, whether I want to take care of a women or a man.

Again, I am not being judgemental, it was just a question. Now, prefrences, free will, freedom, all those things, does that mean that you as a gay man, are born with the instinct of preferring men to women? Or is it something that you learn through your life, for example, that men could be more pleasuring than women, or maybe men are more attractive than women for you.. That's what you prefer, not how you were born...

Secondly, nature. You called it a default state. Defaults can be changed by advanced users, so to say. Are we adult enough to do that? I mean, adult for taking care of our psychic?

That's right... changed. Meaning, you changed nature. You learned that there could be other options, and not just staying as how you were born, as how God had made you, as how mother nature made you.

To put this in very basic terms... There are people born with both reproductive systems... the parents choose which gender the child shall be.... some are born with male genitalia and an over abundance of female hormone and vice versa....

Yes, Sunni... They choose a reproductive system, and then their children live according to their reproductive system, right? Then, that's nature.

Judge only thyself for your actions.

I am not judging anyone.

[Crosshair]

I think it is both. Chromosones do play a part in how we develop mentally as well as physically, and these tendancies can be buried, like instinct, but can be brought out through nurture. It is said that more than usually, a gay person has an overpowering and overprotective mother, and a submissive father... I can't remember where heard or read that....

[SekoETC]

Also a violent father can cause the son to start acting gay, because he doesn't want to be like daddy and therefor starts acting femininely. What I was saying about the hormones earlier, if the mom is abused or threatened while expecting, her fear makes certain hormones be omitted, and those hormones also affect the child. Perhaps the mother's body is trying to turn it's offspring into someone that wouldn't beat her up like the father did, or someone who would provoke the father and risk his life.

[KVZ]

Some of my answers from political compas about sex.

Sex outside marriage is usually immoral. Agree

A same sex couple in a stable, loving relationship, should not be excluded from the possibility of child adoption. Disagree

No one can feel naturally homosexual. Strongly Agree

It's fine for society to be open about sex, but these days it's going too far. Strongly Agree

I know that I am rough, but I just want that society would support right social values. Even if I do not believe in god, like Dee, but still... I know what is right.

[Pie]

Gayness is nurture. Sraightnes is nurture. Slavery is nurture. In-hunanistic behavior(Like how Europeans were twards the natives, and such) Is nurture. Aids, Is nurture. Aids comes frome monkeys eating each other, and there was that big studying thing about can a man and a monkey mak a baby(Wich didn't produce anything)


The only thing that is for certain, is that we shouldn't canibalise the same species, (caus thats how aids was made in the monkeys) And that we shouldn't do it to other animals(Cous thats how aids came to humanity)

[Gender]

It seems that now I was the one, that was being judgemental... I'm sorry Dee.

You see, I think that telling what is, and what isn't natural is a first step to become judgemental. If you stated that something is unnatural, you are selfassured that there should be no permission for that. And you stated something like "aids is an effect for being gay". As if it was a punishement.

I do not think that humans should declare what is natural for them or what is not. This is not an argument, this is only a reference to some higher law, that is correct and fair for sure. But we are not sure, what that law really says. You say, that God created human and stated the natural law. Others would disagree with you.

This natural law which is referenced is quite dangerous. On the very same basis Hitler and his followers stated, that the Jews does not have right to live.