Rip Van Winkell

[Nixit]

How would these changes benefit only certain people?

[Schme]

People suggest things that they want, not nesscerily what will be good for the game, and the people who run the game and implement the suggestions play the game, and so naturally will choose to implement things that they want their characters to be able to have.

My point was that my characters don't use it.

And I think that's admirable.

[Nixit]

Well perhaps, but deterioration doesn't really help ANY character, regardless of the player. In fact, that particular feature hurt the oldbies more, who tend (though aren't necessarily) be the staff as well.

Are there any specific features that people think that staff implement just for themselves. Because it seems like a paranoid assumption.

I'm not praising these features or burning them, but it makes me slightly disturbed to honestly think that staff implement things to personally benefit themselves and/or to smite other characters.

EDIT: And I'm not saying staff are do-gooders as some probably abuse rules, etc., but I doubt no more than the average player. But saying that they would implement features to give their own characters is not only highly unplausible and would seem hard to get away with/do.

[Schme]

Well, I'm not saying the do it to blatantly get themselves stuff, but what gets implemented is done by them, good or bad.


And your right, deterioration hurts the rich characters more than the poor ones.

I remember they said it was implemented to stimulate trade. It's hard to make stuff to trade when you keep having to put your stuff back together. If I had a knife that kept falling apart, I'd probably toss it.

[Mykey]

I consider, that you are not right. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

[Wolf]

I can think of a few chars who would diagree that deterioration hurts them.
They've built some successful shops out of it.
In one place where there were laws limiting the gathering to certain chars only, a char managed to set up a repair shop, and that way earn enough to get himself equipped, and even hire others to work for him.
These are chars that would normally spend a looong time with nothing more than a loincloth and a bone bagh-nakh.
My oldest char has nothing on him that exceeds this level of equipment, except for some cotton clothing, which he had to work long and hard for.
That char recently left his hometown because he got fed up with others whining about how they had nothing better than axes, pickaxes and such tools for weapons, yet whenever other chars came along and asked for help they got treated like they had some disease.
In that aspect, some places in Cantr are way too much like the real world:
Those who have stuff whine about wanting more, but figure that since they somehow got what they had, they did enough work already.
Those who have nothing, will celebrate with every cow they manage to kill after days of hunting.
Luckily, there are also those who share.
One of my now long dead chars spent a long time alone in a deserted town, handing out food and local resources to visitors.
Thanks to some others being the sharing types, at her time of death she had an iron shield, a pickaxe, and several items of clothing, as well as some other tools which she had no use for.

Another char of mine helped build up a town that only had potatoes and sand, and has been making tools, shields and weapons, which were made from his own supply of resources and which he handed out to anyone who needed them.
Currently he's run out of resources, and trying to make a deal with a few neighbouring towns to fix this - because none of the greedy b*stards who he so willingly shared with are even in the least willing to let him have anything of their own supplies - One even had the nerve to call him a freeloader... while that one got all his stuff, except for the loincloth and the headband, from my char.

[Doug R.]

Everyone that is saying that if they started playing now, as opposed to when they did, would not have started due to creeping featurism ignore the fact that if they started now, they would have no idea what the game used to be like and would take the current state as normal.

I've been playing for one and a half years, and I honestly don't think anything has been implemented that overly complicates the game to a degree that steepens the learning curve so much that new players won't start. There is nothing overly complicated about an entire class of manufacturable objects that are useless for anything other than RP. And is it somehow earth-shattering that my characters all know their spawndays? How petty is that?

If I were to suggest what's really going on in this thread, I would put forth that most of the older players are now getting bored with their characters (as is perfectly natural in any game, anywhere) and are using this thread to try to force a reversion back to the "good old days" when they used to have fun, because they are associating their present lack of fun with creeping featurism instead of identifying it for what it is: natural erosion of interest. I say this because I've played lots of games, and I've grown bored with all of them, and I can tell you first hand that the first reaction of a bored player is to complain and try to change things (usually add more features, but now in the case of Cantr, remove them).

Should Cantr have been designed from the outset to be a complete game? Ideally. Given Cantr's magnitude, is it probable that it would have been completed if it was designed and implemented in this way? No.

-Doug, the seemingly only blissfully happy player left

[Doug R.]

Sometimes I think all the developments are specifically to keep this place exclusive and for the elite...

The rest of the time I remember that someone has to pay for this little lot so they do need the new players... I know Jos knows that, just sometimes wonder if Resources Dept and Prog D have a clue...

No offense to anyone, sure you work hard, the question is just wether your work benefits anyone, or should I say the tight people..

Phanlyx, you have no less than 16 pages of posts on the suggestions forum. Your isinuations of eliteism amongst the staff conveniently igore your own contributions to "the problem" (if there actually is one).

[Mykey]

In it something is. Earlier I thought differently, many thanks for the help in this question.

[Phalynx]

Phanlyx, you have no less than 16 pages of posts on the suggestions forum. Your isinuations of eliteism amongst the staff conveniently igore your own contributions to "the problem" (if there actually is one).

Yeah but to be fair I keep getting told off because I don't contribute, I'm too sociable. I'm not arguing against change, just against change which is negative and makes things way harder, such as:

Location amnesia, decay and then ridiculous repair times, proposed building and vehicle amnesia, proposed vehicle and road changes, I could find more but they are minor niggles.

There have been some useful changes.. Firepits easier to make, stone axes, maybe boat cabins but they seem few and far between..

And going back to your point I think if I was first plaing and all I saw was unnamed characters, unnamed location, unnamed vehicles and unnamed buildings I would most likley give up striaght away.

But everyone calls me a quitter so dont let that change anything!

[Doug R.]

Mykey,

I won't deny that there are problems and issues that need to be addressed; I just think that nostolgia is amplifying the discontent it to a good degree.

Phalynx,

Location amnesia, decay and then ridiculous repair times, proposed building and vehicle amnesia, proposed vehicle and road changes, I could find more but they are minor niggles.

Location Amnesia: Preset names stifle creativity. Amnesia forces players to interact (where do these roads go?). I won't deny that it makes it tough for map makers (I know I recorded the same location 2 times in the process of making one of mine) but map making is transient, since there are no new lands being added.

Decay and Repair: Yes, this is a problem, possibly the most significant problem in the game right now. For the most part, the players have managed to cope by putting things into zero hour repairs. If rot in repair is implemented before rot/repair is fixed, it will be devastating, and then I'll be screaming right next to all of you.

Vehicle/Building amnesia: Negligible impact because of signage (assuming each new vehicle/structure comes with a sign, just like new vehicles come with a key, which I would HIGHLY recommend).

Vehicle/Road changes: Already shot down. The corpse is cold. Let's put it to rest.

Edited to remove a nonsensical word, and then again to ad this nice message.

[Duckers]

-Doug, the seemingly only blissfully happy player left

Aww... I'm blissfully happy... I mean, I'm very happy with Cantr, as it is now, but there are quite a few suggestions in the Suggestions thread which, I think, would make the game considerably better, and more interesting, particularly for the current players. I say this, because of your previous point:

Everyone that is saying that if they started playing now, as opposed to when they did, would not have started due to creeping featurism ignore the fact that if they started now, they would have no idea what the game used to be like and would take the current state as normal.

-- Duckers, who is blissfully happy, too...

[Phalynx]

Ok I'll consider myself told and STFU then...

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Location Amnesia: Preset names stifle creativity. Amnesia forces players to interact (where do these roads go?). I won't deny that it makes it tough for map makers (I know I recorded the same location 2 times in the process of making one of mine) but map making is transient, since there are no new lands being added.

It was unnecessary because names were dynamic anyway. If someone lets the current name of a place stifle their creativity of changing the name anyway, then they aren't likely the type to care about whether the name is ever changed or not.

Vehicle/Building amnesia: Negligible impact because of signage (assuming each new vehicle/structure comes with a sign, just like new vehicles come with a key, which I would HIGHLY recommend).

Another unnecessary thing, because of both dynamic naming and future signage.

[Doug R.]

Location Amnesia: Preset names stifle creativity. Amnesia forces players to interact (where do these roads go?). I won't deny that it makes it tough for map makers (I know I recorded the same location 2 times in the process of making one of mine) but map making is transient, since there are no new lands being added.

It was unnecessary because names were dynamic anyway. If someone lets the current name of a place stifle their creativity of changing the name anyway, then they aren't likely the type to care about whether the name is ever changed or not.

Vehicle/Building amnesia: Negligible impact because of signage (assuming each new vehicle/structure comes with a sign, just like new vehicles come with a key, which I would HIGHLY recommend).

Another unnecessary thing, because of both dynamic naming and future signage.

The names were dynamic already, yes, but it makes it hard to change the name of a place when everyone that sees it for the first time sees it as something other than what you want to call it. This is even more important for vehicles. A notorious pirate ship will always be a notorious pirate ship under the old system, regardless of whether the crew renamed it or not, since everyone sees the old name.

However, I understand what you're saying about signage making amnesia pointless, assuming that when people look at something they see what the sign says it is as opposed to what it's original name was. It is my understanding, however, that this is NOT how the new signage system is supposed to work. Amnesia is necessary to force people to look at the signs. It would be very good if upon implementation, all building and vehicles would automatically have a sign indicating the original name.