Religion

[Stan]

Baptism of a person is a universally accepted Christian ritual. How it is done and whether it is actually necessary to go to heaven is debated to this day.

There are many different churches and much of this is because of the different beliefs people have about baptism.

Here's what I know....

When Jesus was dying on the cross a criminal was at his side and dying. Here's the exchange that happened:

Luke 23:39
"One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: 'aren't you the Christ? Save yourself andus!' But the other criminal rebuked him. 'Don't you fear God?' He said, ' we are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.' Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you some into your kingdom.' Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

As you can see from that passage the man was saved without baptism by water.

John the Baptist said this:

"After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with Holy Spirit."
Mark 1:7

Jesus was himself baptized by John the Baptist so he validated the ritual. When John tried to deter Jesus from Baptism Jesus said, "Let it be so now; it is proer for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness."

There is no saving power in the water of baptism. The saving power comes from a person's faith. Jesus talks about baptism by water and baptism by the Holy Spirit.

It is promised to believers that they will be filled with the Holy Spirit..."baptized" by the spirit.

After this a person gets baptized by water. It is done by another Christian (traditionally a priest or minister). Sometimes they are immersed and sometimes it is sprinkled on.

Almost all cases in the Bible when someone puts their faith in Jesus it says they were then baptized. I don't know if that means by spirit or water. But since Jesus was baptized by wate I think it stands to reason we should be too. But, I think its clear that putting our faith in Christ is sufficient for salvation.

When I was baptized by water I felt nothing. However, the moment I said to God that I believed Jesus was the Christ and that I would do whatever he wanted me to do I felt something for sure. It was an incredible experience that can't accurately describe except to say I was kind of warmed inside. Also, things I never thought about before became concerns and things I used to worry about became almost meaningless. This was instantaneous.


There was also a major change in the amount of sleep I needed and my energy level expanded greatly. This effect continues now 6 years later.

The other thing that is interesting to me is that before that moment I could never make any sense of Bible passages. It made zero sense to me, none. From that moment some things began to come into focus. Even things I "knew" I realized I never really "knew". Not sure that makes sense. I can only explain it like this. Did you ever have a subject is school that you had been learning and you thought you got it, but then one day you REALLY got it? I was that way with calculus. There was one day I knew calculus in my brain then the next day I knew calculus with my mind. That's as close as I can describe it.

Not sure if this answers your questions but I hope it does somewhat.

I guess I should also mention life hasn't been perfect since then. God never promised it would be. He just promised he would be there for me when I needed him.

[Dee]

Thank you very much, you answered my question.

Life is never perfect, Stan. It just never is. Not for anyone on this earth. God puts obstacles in our way to test us, and see if we're going to pray to Him or not, and whether we will lose faith or not.

I'm interested to know why you chose to believe in God, Stan, if you do not mind telling.

[Stan]

I'm trying to put that together. Jack Dudeman asked the same question.

I've been thinking about how to retell the story so that it makes sense.

[Jack Dudeman]

I don't think either one of us is going to get an answer, HF...

[Pie]

Retell? Whatever, I think we need to shut this doun.

[Stan]

I don't think either one of us is going to get an answer, HF...

You mean me? My answer to your question isn't just a simple forum post. I'm working on it. I told you it would take awhile.

[Dee]

I'm waiting for it as well

[Pie]

Alright, lest see if i can help. So, what was the question?

[Stan]

They want to know why I believe. i.e. what is it that makes me so sure of God's existence. I don't think you can help.

Of course, there are several reasons and I want to do this question justice.

[Jack Dudeman]

Well, it's been a week, and I didn't want this thread to drop to the bottom of the stack and be forgotten about. Although it seems that Pie would like that to happen.

[Stan]

I promise to respond with something. Not to make excuses, but....

In the past week I've travelled this great nation by car, by plane and by sailboat. I've been to Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, St Louis and L.A. I've seen my daughter off to camp. I've seen the close of the 2nd Quarter for my business. I've closed on a piece of real estate. I've marched in a parade. I've held meetings with regards to Finance with my Church and I had Fourth of July celebrations at my house for 30 people. Not to mention, my father in law about killed himself in a car last week and between surgeries, etc...well, anyway...

I have written some things on this issue in the car and while in a plane. I've been praying for the right words to explain the experiences I've had. I know what I want to explain, but I'm building a "case" for my entire belief system, here. Please grant me your patience.

[Dee]

I'm not rushing you at all! I want it to come out perfectly as well

[KVZ]

Human invented god and religion. Not vice-versa. That's all.

[west]

I'm reading the Satanic Verses, by Salman Rushdie.

Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa in 1989 that said, "I inform the proud Muslim people of the world that the author of the Satanic Verses book, which is against Islam, the Prophet and the Qur'an, and all those involved in its publication who are aware of its content are sentenced to death." As of February of this year it still stands.

It's a damn good book, so far, and treats Islam no more irreverently than the vast majority of literature treats any religion.

[Pie]

Keves, Religion dosen't just Pop out of nowere. It has to come frome someone or somthing, and it is always clear to where it has come frome. Know, all religions have a source, and that source is either

1: a series of myths or stoarys put together over centuries.(and zoroaism is an example of this) These would be exapmles of greek mytholagy, egyption mytholagy, posably hynduism, and alot of other paganisms(I'm not saying hinduism is a paganism... although i don't know much about it...) Juduism is one, You could say the catholic church has alot of myths in it(such as pugitory, or transinstatiation... thingy)

2: A government makes a religion to nationalise other religions into itself(rome is an example)

3: A person aclaims to have divinity.

Now, The most untrustworth of these all is 2. then is 1. then comes 3.Now, I would consider Islam a 2. Islam was created during an expantion period of the country.... of... shoot... what was it? that country. You know what I mean. It is part 3 also.
the Catholic church has much 1, and is a 3.
Cristianity is 3. Many divisions of cristianity can have some 1, perhaps (Definatly)some 2, back in the midevil, but mostly 1.

Cristianity was not made during a long period of time. It was made probably before 70 ad, definatly before the 3'd century. And it is much more acurat acording to time frome happining to time of writing to some of platos writings, ceaser's acount of the war with the gepid(or somthing... Like that... it was one of his books) And you cannot disagree that the people who ACTUALLY HAD SEEN CRIST PERFORM MIRACLES had been myrterd, making those myracles a halusination, or true. It can't be a halusination, or hypnotism... do you know why? TO MANY DAMNED PEOPLE!!!

Religion comes frome everywere. The only thing is, that religion has to come frome somewere. They don't just spring out of nowere.