Vehicle Change: Road Accesibility

[Mafia Salad]

Resources Department is considering some changes to the roads that vehicles will have access to in the future. This change is being considered in the interest of realism and game balance to the travel and transport system.

Can we have a bit of reasoning behind how this improves realism and balance? I'd like to know what the RD wants to accomplish with this change.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

THERE'S ONLY TWO ENGINES IN CANTR, AND THE BOTH HAVE THE SAME SPEED.

Recently, someone (wichi, I think?) came into chat and informed Sho and those others in chat that the engines now actually do make a difference. One is now faster than the other at 1.1 as to 1.0 for the slower one. At least that's what the wiki says, which is the reason the person came in to inform Sho.

[T-shirt]

How many different parts do you want vehicles to have? The overall frame, engine, tires, suspension, transmission, fuel source? We can seperate it all out, but that means more over all time as you have down time in between parts.

I want vehicles to have more parts as a quarry. Or a radio.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

How many different parts do you want vehicles to have? The overall frame, engine, tires, suspension, transmission, fuel source? We can seperate it all out, but that means more over all time as you have down time in between parts.

I want vehicles to have more parts as a quarry. Or a radio.

Egh, please no... too many minute things make it soooo less fun to play... Just as Bowser was saying.

[T-shirt]

I agree. But why should making a vehicle be fun to play and making a quarry be a humongous project?

[Sicofonte]

I think it would be more important to implement a kind of FUEL to the motorized vehicules, than to digress about where is possible to drive a vehicule.

Despite this, I have seen buses and vans going through dreadfull paths.
For example, a van could cross the Andes, but it could be damaged in the process. On the other hand, a van going by a paved road could expect to be safe for plenty of miles.

But well, I haven't build any vehicule, I won't be affected by this modification.

[Surly]

Just for some perspective:

Currently there are 92 actual vehicles who's road access would be changed

6 of these are travelling - 5 on sand roads, only 1 on paved roads or above

Of the 86 which are parked 78 are in areas where there is at least one road better than sand path . 8 are in areas where no exit is greater than a sand path .

So in answer to Oasis response... just 8 would be completely stranded.

And road improvements are there for a reason... Consider the fact that the paved road is only the middle improvement...

[Maelstrom]

Just for some perspective:

Currently there are 92 actual vehicles who's road access would be changed

6 of these are travelling - 5 on sand roads, only 1 on paved roads or above

Of the 86 which are parked 78 are in areas where there is at least one road better than sand path . 8 are in areas where no exit is greater than a sand path .

So in answer to Oasis response... just 8 would be completely stranded.

And road improvements are there for a reason... Consider the fact that the paved road is only the middle improvement...

Right. This doesn't have a very large present-day impact. Everyone's freaking out because of their future plans, which may or may not ever occur.

I guess perhaps another way to deal with / cap the fact that a sportscar -cannot- go full speed down a sand road (read: driving across the dunes, down a beach, and by cannot I mean cannot with any reasonable expectation of safety, control, etc) would be to put some sort of speed cap per vehicle per road type.

I think that's much more of a PITA, from a programming standpoint, but then your bus / sportscar / etc -could- drive from point A to point B but would possibly go as slow as someone walking (or slower!) because of the amount of time you'd effectively spend pulling it out when stuck, backing up from back areas and finding a way around, etc, etc, etc....

And if vehicle repair were to ever be included in the game, you should fully expect, as a player, that they would wear out a heck of a lot quicker on those kinds of roads since they are not designed for them.

Maybe that's a better question to ask. What vehicles are designed to be driven, -at their best-, on what road types? Because we're not asking -if- a limo can be driven down a deer track, we're asking -should- a limo be driven down a deer track.

-Mael

[wichita]

Resources Department is considering some changes to the roads that vehicles will have access to in the future. This change is being considered in the interest of realism and game balance to the travel and transport system.

Can we have a bit of reasoning behind how this improves realism and balance? I'd like to know what the RD wants to accomplish with this change.

The idea came from analyzing all of the vehicles, based on production cost, cargo capacity, passengers, speed, and road access and deciding what happens to the spectrum over the course of the game.

From a certain perspective, why would anyone ever build a bicycle? Just build a tandem and you get so much more improvement in cargo, speed, and passenger capability. Bike = worthless (from a certain perspective)

Who in their right mind would build a road motorcycle? It is the only vehicle in game that can not travel on a sand road, in a certain aspect it is easier to just build some of the cars. The road motorcycle is pointless (from a certain perspective).

So, granted, a lot of this came from overanalyzing the numbers and geeking out about metagaming. That is the world the Wiki has brought us into so we have to live with it. There were a lot of assenine decisions made in the past (like setting some sort of game advantage to certain vehicles becasue they can go more places than others) that we would like to see fixed in order to make a more mechanically colorful simulation. We want to decide which of these are going to be best for the game.

So after we f***ed up the food system, and added dung so poor people can eat, for better or worse, I guess we will decide to f*** this up too. We're just trying to help pull the game out of the doldroms as best we can. Everyone has the same weapons, everyone drives the same boats, everyone builds the same buildings, everyone makes the same bikes....it is monotonous, with a world of color in the build menu that isn't being explored.

But now I am rambling...

Bottom line is we felt this would add something to the game, but we recognized that this would be another huge change and I felt that it would be best to hear from you, the players, before we went through and had a poke at it. If I can organize any more thoughts more coherently, I will post them.

I for one agree with Bowser. I am tired of changing the rules in the middle of the game. But after looking at the database for a year, and trying to find someway to find some sort of simplicity out of the mess of a technology collection that I inherited...I am at a loss sometimes for how to tie up all the loose ends, put those planks to good use, and help get the game to a point where an advanced civilization can grow and thrive in this little game. It's hard work.

I am rambling again...need coffee....

[Sicofonte]

Everyone has the same weapons, everyone drives the same boats, everyone builds the same buildings, everyone makes the same bikes....it is monotonous, with a world of color in the build menu that isn't being explored.

I agree. It's monotonous.
It's diffficult to achieve a fully ballanced and "assorted" world. It's very difficult...

But don't forget that most of the players don't like to explore, but to exploit. For them, the only reason to explore is to find the better options. If there is a best solution for any problem (i.e. a weapon to ficht) that solution will be the common one. Unavoidable.

(...) trying to find someway to find some sort of simplicity out of the mess of a technology collection that I inherited...I am at a loss sometimes for how to tie up all the loose ends, put those planks to good use, and help get the game to a point where an advanced civilization can grow and thrive in this little game. It's hard work.

All you make a great job. All the players are grateful (even if they don't know or are complaining).
Thanks!

[Solfius]

Is there any kind of overall plan that the RD can refer to when making changes? Or does the emphasis of the department's work change depending on who is working in it?

Perhaps a set of stated design principles and objectives would make it easier when staff inherit other player's work and help avoid the creeping featurism HallinatingFarmer dislikes so much

[T-shirt]

Currently there are 92 actual vehicles who's road access would be changed

6 of these are travelling - 5 on sand roads, only 1 on paved roads or above

Of the 86 which are parked 78 are in areas where there is at least one road better than sand path . 8 are in areas where no exit is greater than a sand path .

It does not matter where each vehicles is now. The value of a vehicle depends on what you can do with it. If you can only use it to travel between two settlements instead of most settlements in the region, you've got an expensive relatively useless storage facility.

[Pieter de Groote]

Just for some perspective:

Currently there are 92 actual vehicles who's road access would be changed ...

...

Right. This doesn't have a very large present-day impact. Everyone's freaking out because of their future plans, which may or may not ever occur. ...

Not true.

I'll give you the story of one of my characters, there's more than one with the same kind of situation:

This character of mine is part of a team of people that had the idea to make a bus. It's not an easy thing to do, including the production of 30000 grams of aluminium.
(ever tried it? it is a lot)

The idea originated in the late 1200s and since then there's been expeditions to find the right resources, people building small land vehicles and boats for the transport of the resources, people trading for the right stuff, lots of machinery being built, people that spent years and years without sunlight processing all the bauxite and iron ore into precious metal, etcetera. This is going on for about 300 days now. Another 40 of 50 days to go...

I can assure you, for the players involved, this proposed change has "very large present-day impact". The fact that the bus is not ready yet and therefore doesn't count for some of you, doesn't change the fact that the proposed change will have a massive impact on these people.

I hope you come up with something better.

[wietse]

I just build the first van on the dutch island.

It took a long time to build. more then a year real time.

We just got to the point where we have the roads between the major villages upgraded to sand roads. This took a lot of time.

Because the roads were upgraded we build this van and 1 other car has been build.

To change the roads the van can travel, means the van will be stuck in place, with no hope of improving the roads faster.

The main reason the van was build was to transports large quantities of sand and stone over land to improve the roads faster. So its useless now.

So i am definitly against this change, and yes also for personal reasons
The van was my main target to build and a nice reason to play for. And now i wanted to make use of its benefits.

To change this means a year resource collecting wasted, with at least another half a year to a year before there is a chance the roads are upgraded to paved roads.

A year playing time is a lot i think. I have been playing voor 800 days now...

[wietse]

This does have a LARGE present day impact for me!!!!!!