General about building names

[Oasis]

ProgD also needs to keep in mind that the minute these names are wiped, we lose them from the database. When this happened to towns, it was a PD nightmare. This change will make it very difficult to locate characters when needed, as the line will most often then be blank for where they are in a town, unless they're outside.

Marian, I have a few leaders, and yes, they need to know the names of every building in town. How can you keep track of what's going on if you can't? You'll never know if people who live there are going into the buildings they should or not. And you will forever, as somone said earlier, constantly be naming buildings for people, newspawns and oldies alike.

[formerly known as hf]

Am I alone in liking the idea of building name amnesia?

If I walk into a high-street I do not know, I only know what a building is by any signage I see.

Buildings without signs do not get my attention.

The same should be in Cantr. If you reach a new town, you can see the buildings with signs, and will be interested in those. The ones without signs you can ignore.

If you are a business person / town leader, it will be in your interest to put up signs where needed, to attract attention and aid in directing to specific places / stores etc.

As long as there is plentiful time between the implementation of signs and a building name amnesia (at least 6 weeks) and that there are simple signs which can be cheaply and quickly built, then there will be time to get the signage up before amnesia.

Changing a building name has been an almost constant request, and is something which needs to be implemented soon.

Leaders won't need to be constantly naming buildings. How many 'routes from this location' notes have you seen? When was the last time you had to point and name a road? The same can go for buildings - as long as it is kept so that they are displayed in the same order for all characters, a list can easily be created.

If you are a town leader, just be sure to name all the buildings you need to pre-amnesia. As long as there is a long warning, this isn't going to be a problem.

I do agree with The Sociologist, at least in that buildings should have locations - especially for the larger towns.

[Solfius]

Am I alone in liking the idea of building name amnesia?

Nope, there's at least two of us.

[Chris Johnson]

The same can go for buildings - as long as it is kept so that they are displayed in the same order for all characters, a list can easily be created.

Have a look at buildings now ...

Order is now in age of building as opposed to alphabetical - therefore will remain constant over time ... until buildings get destroyed but that's another issue.

[Black Canyon]

I agree that signage is important and will be a great addition. However, I think it is also important to remember a fundamental difference between cantr towns and real life towns. You can't see them or physically locate them.

I was raised in a very small midwestern town. Most buildings in my hometown did not have signs. Yet I knew who owned or lived in practically 75% of them. I saw those buildings everyday and I recognized them and associated them with various experiences, frequently involving observation. If I didn't have first hand knowledge of a particular place, someone could say, "you know... the place on the northeast corner of the park", or ..."the house next to Pete's place." I could also fairly easily tell the difference between a private building and a public building. I often knew what a building's previous purpose was....as the old painted sign often remained even after the building was taken over by a new business or purpose.

So... I really have no problem with keeping the old names even with the addition of new signage. It seems completely natural to me in a very real life way.

p.s. That was a neat idea, Chris.

[Chris Johnson]

The change was to give some concept simliar to visual cues used IRL, to buildings in Cantr towns . It nows means that people can refer to the 7th building or the one next to "bobs house" etc . Not a full blown visual/ spatial system but a beginning.

[Phalynx]

I can tell I am pissing against the wind here.... but it will end in tears...!

[Oasis]

I have not voted on this poll, as I don't think the answers are indicative of the real choices. Therefore I can't see the results, though I don't trust them anyways, the way the poll is devised. However, I count I think 4 people speaking in favour of this. Perhaps a better poll could be held, one that everyone will understand......

1. Building and vehicle amnesia (long after signage is implemented)

2. Signage (so building and vehicle names can be changed for all) but no amnesia

3. The way it is now.

Other choices could be added, if need be, but I see these as the three main choices.

[SCUBA]

Probably amnesia will happend all is going that way even thou many dont like it.

This should then probably be in suggestions.
Let not buildings be just unnamed buildings plus type (cottage, hall etc) Let us have more to recognise buildings with like period af time bult (from the time around 1100 or in 1100 style) and I would also like for characters living in multi ethnical towns the ethnic style on the buildings like (an unnamed lighthouse in spanish style from around 1100)

[Oasis]

Chris, that the buildings will always remain in the same positions, new ones always added to the bottom, will help a great deal. However, only for those towns where your char can get to to generate the existing list before it's too late, and only for outside buildings. Not for rooms.

This doesn't help at all with the problems vehicle amnesia will cause, however. I cannot conceive that there is anything that will. As someone said, these items move, and there is no way anyone can dynamically name even their own towns vehicles when they're not currently at home. Nor identify a boat.

As for signage, buildings and vehicles create different problems. We'll need signage for buildings to be very cheap and quick to make, so we can get all those names we just lost back again. However, that makes it very easy for someone to put a new one over yours, if you step out of town for a couple of days, or are inside somewhere.

Vehicles will need to be assigned signs as well, as quickly as possible, so everyone knows what they are. However, that makes it waaaaaay too easy for a pirate or car/bike thief to change the name of their vehicle. Someone said that it should almost be the cost of rebuilding the boat. Well, not friggin likely.

[Phalynx]

Chris, that the buildings will always remain in the same positions, new ones always added to the bottom, will help a great deal. However, only for those towns where your char can get to to generate the existing list before it's too late, and only for outside buildings. Not for rooms.

This doesn't help at all with the problems vehicle amnesia will cause, however. I cannot conceive that there is anything that will. As someone said, these items move, and there is no way anyone can dynamically name even their own towns vehicles when they're not currently at home. Nor identify a boat.

As for signage, buildings and vehicles create different problems. We'll need signage for buildings to be very cheap and quick to make, so we can get all those names we just lost back again. However, that makes it very easy for someone to put a new one over yours, if you step out of town for a couple of days, or are inside somewhere.

Vehicles will need to be assigned signs as well, as quickly as possible, so everyone knows what they are. However, that makes it waaaaaay too easy for a pirate or car/bike thief to change the name of their vehicle. Someone said that it should almost be the cost of rebuilding the boat. Well, not friggin likely.

Bang on... nice to see someone talking sense!

[SCUBA]

Someone said that it should almost be the cost of rebuilding the boat. Well, not friggin likely.

I said that! But I didnt mean signs. I would like to have no amnesia = all default names left. I also would like to have signs and I would like to keep the dynamic names too.

There is a difference difference between default names and dynamic names. They do exist both today. Amnesia is to take away the default ones.

All buildings and vehicles have them both today.

One default for everyone to see is on buildings and vehicles still, locations lost there in the amnesia but could be braught back.

One dynamic for every character on every building, vehicle, character and location.

What I ment in the quote is the last thing that I whant. Changeable default names. I would like that it would be possible to also change them. This has thou to be done with big projects as it would be like rebuilding the house or the vehicle or put up signs for the location everythere as this would effect everyone and not be a hidden sign or a change of just your own dynamic name for that building, vehicle or location.

So I whant:
- Changeable defalt names on locations and roads to locations, buildings and vehicles.
- Signs on locations and roads to locations, buildings and vehicles.
- Dynamic names on all these.

[Solfius]

Signage should definately be cheap and easy to produce. It's a necessity, not an option; and its production requirements should reflect this.

[Chris Johnson]

Another alternative would be to make signage relatively expensive but in the same way that vehicles now come with locks , all existing and new buildings could come with a default sign. I personally am not too keen on this but it may be a workable compromise .

At first glance the building name will not be known until the signs are read . This allows for multiple signs on a building not all of which are necessarily the name of the building (e.g. Sign 1 "Royal Alchemists" , Sign 2 "Please knock before entering" , Sign 3 "Wipe your feet")

It still leaves the ability change both the public and private names through signage and dynamic naming .

Personally I don't see why we should treat vehicles any differently , so what if they move , thats why they can be stolen and hidden or used in piratical activities - tough if you don't recognise them in another town (and no .. I don't have any pirates characters ... all my characters tend to be law abiding - maybe a couple sadistically so ). However we don't have to introduce this for vehicles at the same time

[the_antisocial_hermit]

If I walk into a high-street I do not know, I only know what a building is by any signage I see.

I think of Cantrian buildings being like the ones I mentioned earlier; they have the name engraved into the wood or stone as part of the architecture and I see no reason to wipe the names.

If someone has a business and they want everyone to see the real name of the building/business, they can build a sign to do so. It won’t matter if people put signs on their houses or not, they can be left as is to the eye of the beholder. That’s how it’s going to end up anyway, whether the building is the 27) Mama Mia's Pizzaria or 27) Unnamed Building.

Order is now in age of building as opposed to alphabetical - therefore will remain constant over time ...

I like this..

So... I really have no problem with keeping the old names even with the addition of new signage. It seems completely natural to me in a very real life way.

Exactly, because there are real life buildings that will always have an old name engraved on them. So yea, it is real enough.

2. Signage (so building and vehicle names can be changed for all) but no amnesia

That is a better (less confusing) way to set up the poll and this would be my choice if that’s how it were set up.

Engraved into the building...