TBR and Noniwrok, historical discussion. (No war talk)

[Marian]

Killing multiple innocent people with overwhelming force is always a massacre in my book. So I disagree with you but I'm not going to say I "don't give a fuck" because when having a civil discussion on the internet I usually try not to be an asshole.

And antisocial hermit, I might have misread somewhere but I was referring to this post by Spider:

Only half the resources were there, Spider took half before giving the boat to Lilly. The guy comes into Kwor and Spider arrives and then finds out whats going on then drags him away and seeing as he knew what they took cause the thief made notes of what he took, he left the stuff that belonged to the beach with her and then split most of the other stuff.

So yes, when rereading it looks like Spider might have been considered a thief (even though on most islands he would have been patted on the back for stopping a pirate and not expected to return the boat or anything else unless he was RPing a wannab Sir Galahad), but unless I'm missing something here it looks like Lilly's only crime was in taking back items that belobged to the beach anyway.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Many of the new people moving into the beach were "friends" of the thieving couple Luckyboy and Lilly so it was assummed they would put up a fight if TBR attacked the ones with the stolen goods.

Because, as two (the only new people that moved to the beach at that time), they could put up such a good fight with their meager weaponry. They could've been held until after Lucky was dead. There was no need to kill them at the same time because after Lucky died they wouldn't have been able to get out.

[kinvoya]

I added a link to the original theif's post in my post above. I think you will find his behavior interesting.

Also, I don't think the girl should have been killed either.

Oh, and Spider forgot to mention that he played both Spider and Luckyboy. That was also very convenient for the theives involved.

When Luckyboy was locked up who did Lilly go to for help? Why Spider!

Then after Luckyboy died she married an ex-member of TBR who was all-so-innocently making things go wrong.

Just recently his character admitted that he was sabataging TBR and helped Lilly escape. Small world.

[Bran-Muffin]

Most islands would not have had the proof of who the resources actually belonged to.

And if you want to get technical only one innocent person was killed, and that was the woman. Her boyfriend attacked a new member of the Tribe for an insult. Normally if you attack someone for insulting you then you get locked up.

[Spider]

The theives were the ones who stole it from the original thief (who I still believe was in an OOC ring with them because he basically just stopped the boat in Kwor and handed it over and posted about it to brag about his stealing...I'll try to find the link). Here is the link and following discussion: http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=45
....

I don't know what you mean by OOC ring, I don't do the shit you do. I arrived on my bike and saw he walked into my building, guess what, I locked him up and killed him and took his shit, since most of it was belonging to TBr, why the hell would I give it back to them? Lilly got the boat cause I didn't feel like dealing with the problems that came with it.

One thief was dead yeah, but when Lillian and Lucky started to use the resources knowing where it came from they became the thieves.

They made no effort to return the items. They put it to their own use. Lillian and Lucky both had brand new iron shields made out of the iron that TBR owned. And some leather clothes made out of our leather. We had six members of the Tribe in town.

....

TBr resources were NOT used, the salt that was used was theirs to make the leather...come on, think, they live on a beach with salt and sand, what the hell are they going to have a shit load of? Lucky gave Lilly her iron shield, they made all their stuff BEFORE, all lilly did was store the stuff, the only thing she DID use was a sabre, thats all. BTW, no one ever talked to Lucky about the stuff, he mostly slept inside. Lucky already had iron going, your stuff wasn't used so get your info straight.

[Hagan]

I was the thief on the TBR Longboat and I had no CLUE as to what was happening.. I was spawned.. saw a load of keys and things on the ground picked up all I could and took off running ran around trying to loose who ever may of been following me found a everywhere I went I tryed every building bike and boat at some point I found the TBR boat.. I took it then took everything in town.. I went to acouple of towns and Took everything.. When I arrived at Kwor I took just about eveything... just as I had in other towns..every note even bones..... to do this I would leave everything on the boat no healing food or nothing so I could move more quicket... funny thing is I had stepped off for my last trip and to leave my note. how HAROLD had stolen from them when Spider locked me up. I had almost all the boat would hold so I knew I was being risky but I had so much it was getting boring after loosing a few who chased on boat... I knew I was doing all or nothing.. and I got nothing...

BUT you have my word I had NO CLUE as to TBR KWOR or anyone HAROLD was my first K- Island spawn


And as was mentioned in an eariler post Harold made a list of everything he stole from every town had a copy on him and actully left a copy at every town he stole from.... When he was locked up he tried to give SPider the wrong key tried to bide some time was not counting on anyone have Crossbows.. I thought since I didnt carry any Healing food I carried a crowbar and was gambling on IF I was caught I could bust the lock and get out before killed

I KNOW STUPID but he was my first character with a crowbar he didnt know it MIGHT not break on 1 try...He had never seen a crossbow and didnt realize they could fly through his Iron Shield like it was there.... to start out so LUCKY HAROLD made some stupid mistakes yet but as I said in a braggy way yes but thats what I thought the thread was about.. which I didnt start.... HE ended quickly which was fine with me he was my first bad guy and it took many Cantr YEARS for me to turn another bad...

[AoM]

Frankly, arguing about whether killing 3 people in a 4 person cantr village is a massacre or just a string of murders is not seeing the trees for the forest. Point of fact, the TBR higher-ups killed first and couldn't care less about asking questions second. Not a policy that a peace-wanting people should allow their leaders to adopt. (Assuming the lower ranking tribespeople ever caught wind of what was happening.)

[AoM]

And if you want to get technical only one innocent person was killed, and that was the woman. Her boyfriend attacked a new member of the Tribe for an insult. Normally if you attack someone for insulting you then you get locked up.

If your int that person's territory, under their jursidiction. Kwor Beach was not TBR territory, unless they felt that their authority was universal?

[formerly known as hf]

This has been a really interesting read.

The one character I had who had contact with TBR when they were in the forest and enforcing the hematite restrictions, found the restrictions to be pretty silly - the going rate seemed to be something like 8 days worth of coal for 1 day worth of hematite... I have since wondered if TBR actually ever managed to arrange trades with anyone at a rate like that?

Apart from that, the most experience I have had has been from the perspective in Kwor - which has only really ever had hear-say and rumours.

I often think that if TBR were inclined to make trade agreements, and gone for some cross-island diplomacy, Kwor may well not have sided with Karnon. It was only because Karnon initiated talks with Kwor's fledgling council (who were prepared to take offers of friendships wherever they came from) that the alliance was formed - and the contact with Karnon from then on just strengthend the suspiscion of TBR, which the town still had no real contact with (and still hasn't - for a town which hates TBR so deeply, Kwor has had surprisingly little direct contact).

I forget, now, but didn't Stylez turn up in Kwor for a bit? Either way - ha ha ha for Stylez (free bike for me )

[saztronic]

... in Nayr's defense, the so-called premature march on KF was (I believe) at first agreed to by Jules. If it wasn't, then there was a clear communication error, because I (the player) was certain that there was a planned attack that was supposed to occur when I'd set out. (And I was mildly annoyed when it was called back.)

We had wanted to assassinate Nick while he was still in the Forest with a quick strike team, not a whole army. I had enough people for that mission, but half of them fell asleep on me and stayed in Karnon. Naleph was waiting on the road for them to wake, so he wouldn't have followed through on the march until everyone had caught up, but by that time Jules had pulled the plug on the operation, and so no one was coming. Naleph didn't argue the point when he was berated for the attack because an arguement wouldn't have served any purpose but to demoralize everyone around him.

I was only a bit player at best in all this long saga, but I had a view of this aborted "quick strike" from TBR's side, and let me tell you, it was.... unimpressive. My charrie had spent time in Karnon, and grown to hate it, before going to live among TBR. So I knew a lot of the army, and I knew Nayr. Although the KF to Karnon road was closed -- or rather, perhaps, because it was closed, we were continually chasing people out onto it. So we saw this attack coming days before it could have been mounted effectively. My char recognized a Colonoel and a Corporal approaching. Then, although I couldn't see Nayr, the Corporal (Marian? Don't rightly remember) spoke to Nayr behind her on the road, so I knew he was there too.

Although Colonel and Corporal were clearly active, they refused to respond to inquiries or comments, and acted secretive and suspicious. The result? Absolutely everyone in Blackrock Forest was inside behind locked doors within hours with plenty of food and healing food and weapons. I think we literally left one person outside to chat with the scary strike force if or when they actually made it to town.

The best part being that Nick wasn't even in the Forest at the time -- he was off in Kwor with half of TBR's soldiers. So a failed venture all the way round from TBR's perspective. We used to laugh about how the very sight of us on the road made mighty Karnon scurry back home.

[DylPickle]

If I can remember right, the two on the road had gone further then they were supposed to, then the attack was called off.

[west]

Which is an absolutely terrible position to be in, because if you call off your strike because your plans don't go exactly as you wanted, and TWO of your people were seen by the enemy, you look like absolute pansies. If you strike anyway, they've had time to prepare for you, and you'd likely go down in complete ignominy.

Karnon has always had a terrible military, regardless of its numbers. (See their very first invasion of Karnon Forest as a prime example)

[AoM]

I was only a bit player at best in all this long saga, but I had a view of this aborted "quick strike" from TBR's side, and let me tell you, it was.... unimpressive. My charrie had spent time in Karnon, and grown to hate it, before going to live among TBR. So I knew a lot of the army, and I knew Nayr. Although the KF to Karnon road was closed -- or rather, perhaps, because it was closed, we were continually chasing people out onto it. So we saw this attack coming days before it could have been mounted effectively. My char recognized a Colonoel and a Corporal approaching. Then, although I couldn't see Nayr, the Corporal (Marian? Don't rightly remember) spoke to Nayr behind her on the road, so I knew he was there too.

Although Colonel and Corporal were clearly active, they refused to respond to inquiries or comments, and acted secretive and suspicious. The result? Absolutely everyone in Blackrock Forest was inside behind locked doors within hours with plenty of food and healing food and weapons. I think we literally left one person outside to chat with the scary strike force if or when they actually made it to town.

The best part being that Nick wasn't even in the Forest at the time -- he was off in Kwor with half of TBR's soldiers. So a failed venture all the way round from TBR's perspective. We used to laugh about how the very sight of us on the road made mighty Karnon scurry back home.

Well, now you know that it certainly wasn't fear of you that drove us away. Although I will admit, it was unimpressive because Naleph and Jules were giving the troops different sets of orders apparently. Naleph did not know that at the time.

That was a weird situation because, OOCly, I knew that Nick was around the Kwor area, because my Kwor character had heard tell he was at Kwor Beach with his toughs. But to have alternated the Karnon plan would have been a CR breach, so I had to go with it. If it hadn't been called back, we probably would have gone after the oldest and best equiped we could find. Probably Erin.

[Bran-Muffin]

You wouldnt have had a chance, they saw you out on the road. The second your army set foot in town you would have been looking around an empty town center. Or you would have been meet with a sabre and locked building. Until they beat ya to death.

[AoM]

Maybe, maybe not. Naleph already knew that you liked to pull the tribe into the postal center. He had scouted most of the buildings already while you were in and was making note of which ones could be hid in.

The plan was not to enter town directly. The plan was to perch at 90% on the road and then go in with teams of actives and then out again as necessary. If you wanted to fight us, you would have had to come out onto the road.

EDIT: The plan I think, would have worked. Whether the soldiers would have been disciplined to carry it out would have been another story. Certainly not with Jules and Naleph sending mixed messages.