TBR and Noniwrok, historical discussion. (No war talk)

[Marian]

Well all I have to go by is the individual story's posted....and the antisocial hermit's post in the other thread alone is enough to make me hate them. Haven't heard of anything that Karnon's done that's been even half as bad yet.

BTW, can these two threads be merged?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Yea, they should be merged. I posted the other just before AoM made this one... because everyone kept alluding to Kirinn.

I don't hate them, even though that one char died so unfairly. They weren't that bad mostly (from my experiences). Those were the two worst things I know of during my char's 17-18yrs with them. There's just so much more to it that you just don't/can't understand unless you're in it all...

I've only had one other char have a bad encounter with them, and to her it was only the two or three specific ones she came across; she never blanketed the whole tribe with their actions. My other chars always had pleasant interactions that I remember. That was all before 1000, I think.

Now, we all know what colonel would say though...

Edit: Yes, they killed people that broke the law and didn't ask for pardon after their time was served. No different than other places.

[nitefyre]

Well all I have to go by is the individual story's posted....and the antisocial hermit's post in the other thread alone is enough to make me hate them. Haven't heard of anything that Karnon's done that's been even half as bad yet.

BTW, can these two threads be merged?

I tried to do so when the topics were still young and AoM created a duplicate, except well, I don't have the access. I know how to cut, but I can't merge. Perhaps an administrator could try?

The other option is locking one and just continuing on the other, quoting everybody's posts there, but I don't think it's worth doing something so drastic.

[Marian]

Oh well, it's probably better to just leave them both open unless there's an easier way.

Edit: Yes, they killed people that broke the law and didn't ask for pardon after their time was served. No different than other places.

Eh? Actually that does sound pretty different, unless I'm reading it wrong. They'd have people serve time for a crime and then kill them?

Most places either kill criminals right away, or else lock them up awhile or make them do work if they cooperate. I'm guessing no one was informed of the 'killing' part that would happen afterwards, or they might not have been so willing to serve time in the first place... (I'm not really sure what you mean by asking for pardon...some kind of technicality? Because usually wouldn't you get an apology out of a criminal before they served their sentence?)

EDIT: Or do you just mean sleepers? (At least when I was there the only 'criminals' I saw were sleepy newspawns...sleepers are annoying but IMHO it's still a bit much to drag them away and kill them for it.)

[Sarah]

I tried to do so when the topics were still young and AoM created a duplicate, except well, I don't have the access. I know how to cut, but I can't merge. Perhaps an administrator could try?

I'm not aware of any option to merge topics, other than the way you mentioned. . . .

[Bran-Muffin]

Oh well, it's probably better to just leave them both open unless there's an easier way.

Edit: Yes, they killed people that broke the law and didn't ask for pardon after their time was served. No different than other places.

Eh? Actually that does sound pretty different, unless I'm reading it wrong. They'd have people serve time for a crime and then kill them?

Most places either kill criminals right away, or else lock them up awhile or make them do work if they cooperate. I'm guessing no one was informed of the 'killing' part that would happen afterwards, or they might not have been so willing to serve time in the first place... (I'm not really sure what you mean by asking for pardon...some kind of technicality? Because usually wouldn't you get an apology out of a criminal before they served their sentence?)

EDIT: Or do you just mean sleepers? (At least when I was there the only 'criminals' I saw were sleepy newspawns...sleepers are annoying but IMHO it's still a bit much to drag them away and kill them for it.)

Innocent people werent dragged inside just for them to be killed. People who broke the set of laws set on the ground were taken inside and left there for a period of time. If they didnt wake up to leave town after that time was served they were killed to make room for other newspawns and others that tried to ignore the laws.

Part of the laws they had set enforced people to state their name within 2 days. You are obviously active enough to spawn a character then you are active enough to state that characters name on spawning, if they left them sleeping longer then two days they were taken inside for another 3 or more, then killed if they didnt move. (happened all the time, part of the ooc influence against tbr.)

Just consider yourself lucky you werent around cantr in the 200's for the world wide inactive sweeps.

[Zanthos]

personally, i find nothing wrong with the actions of TBR in this case, but that could just be my liberal fascist political views talking...

[Solfius]

Just consider yourself lucky you werent around cantr in the 200's for the world wide inactive sweeps.

Now why did those stop?

I can see why with the spawning density rules now, sleepers are good as they mean you get even more spawns, but are we allowed to use that in game.

Since the wiki I no longer know what I'm supposed to know and what I'm not supposed to know IC.

[Bran-Muffin]

I think the world wide inactive sweeps stopped mostly because people complained ooc and they eventually died out.

[Solfius]

Pity, it was an interesting development, and I don't think there was anything wrong with them from a rule point of view, perhaps under our morality system, but would have been nice if cantr developed a morality system of its own, different from ours

[Bran-Muffin]

They are still around, just in different forms. Perfect example would be the laws that the Tribe used to have when they were in the Forest.

[Marian]

Maybe people just got tired of wasting time and energy on something so pointless? It's not like sleepers cause any problems, they just stand there and quietly starve, and honestly if your guards have nothing better to do then where themselves out killing them, that's either a sign there's nothing else very interesting going on, or just stupid on the part of the guards...what're you going to do if a real criminal shows up when you've already attacked two or three harmless sleepers that day?

But actually I don't really care much about sleepers anyway, though I still think it's kind of harsh killing newspawns just for going on the wrong road, and that also seems like kind of a silly and sadistic waste of time for TBR and Karnon. (I read the laws in the forest and don't actually remember anything about that, so again I got lucky, considering I just picked an unnamed location at random.)

And anyway, all of that was pretty minor compared to the kindapping stuff and the massacre on the beach. (Yes there's that word you guys don't like, but I don't know what else to call it...)

It just seems like if a town was really interested in peace, all the killing and threats wouldn't be the way they'd go about convincing other towns of that.

Okay. Now, somebody post some bloodthirsty Karnon stories. I thought that's why everyone wanted this thread, right? Maybe I'm not being objective, but I can't help it when I'm still mainly seeing examples from TBR victims.

[Bran-Muffin]

The attempted kidnapping and attempted killing was a retaliatory act against the ENA leaders. ENA attacked first and killed three Tribe members.

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

[AoM]

Bad things that Karnon has done... hmmm. Well, we instigated the first cold war by locking up Velfred Blackrock and then later on another Blackrock whose name I forget. Neither were killed, which allowed for a prisoner exchange later.

We closed down the road to Karnon Forest and constantly had to chase newspawns who wouldn't bother to read the notes saying that the road was closed under penalty of death.

There was one person who actually claimed that she intended to take the fight to the Blackrocks herself, even though she wasn't part of our army and wasn't armed. We couldn't reason with her to turn around so we killed her because the only thing she would end up doing would be to alert TBR to the fact that we were planning things against them.

In the Aftermath of the Tribe leaving the island, the groups of ex-blackrocks who were left were jailed for a long time in the Imperial Prison. Their jailing was eventually seen as unjust by Naleph, but again, Jules had all the real power and was busy travelling to different locations to try and shore up Imperial ties with the locals. The trial was put off for a long time because the Chief Senator needed to be present.

I've heard that some Karnon soldiers had some misgivings with people in Kwor Southern Fields at one point, but my character wasn't there. Perhaps someone else can shed light on that.

[Bran-Muffin]

There was one person who actually claimed that she intended to take the fight to the Blackrocks herself, even though she wasn't part of our army and wasn't armed. We couldn't reason with her to turn around so we killed her because the only thing she would end up doing would be to alert TBR to the fact that we were planning things against them.

That woman caught up to Nick in Karnon Fields when Nick was returning from his visit in Kwor. That is why the Tribe rushed out of the Forest and onto their boats. Instead of taking their time to load properly.