Religion

[Pie]

Profacys profacys. one of the most interesting facts of the world. Many profacies have been made, some came true, some didn't. Lets give an example. Jesus made a profacie that the temple of daved(I think that was it) would be distroyed. 70 A.D. Paul made a profacie about the four rights. It was about this monster, but the third head had a scar(berlin wall)seperating the face. There was one with david, which proficied about nebucadnezzar becoming crazy and stuff intill he recognised god. That happened(I'm fairly shure, although this is a jewish thing.... and I'm not so sure about jewish things...)

A profacies profacies. How DID we get onto profacies(pleas, ignore the bad spelling of profacies... Ah, its prophesy.

And I must agree, prophasys are not bunk. The prophasys made by paul 1976 years ago are coming true. We do not know if they will be compleated, though. But they are coming true, so beware.

Prophasys, are IN A TENCE predictions. Exept that prophasies use no knowlage about the fact to come up with a compleatly (at the time, it seams) irrational, or unproveable prediction about the futier.

The idea of god in science, Is that god created it, god gives free rain to it, and now here we are, saying that god cant have created it(although i can see no other way that god could not NOT have created it.) Have you ever thought, that maby, JUST MABY god dosen't use devine intervention? Did you ever stop and think that MABY god uses NATURE to do miracle? That maby god dosen't always just snap his fingers and make something true? NO!!! He starts a reaction thousands of years ahead, and then he just plans that moses will be borne at this time, and he will say this at this secont, and the such.

Also, The theries that disprove god in science are long winded and confusing, dealing with alot of mutations and such, and relying on a carbon dating system(wich is COMPLEATLY bunk)Fore the age of the earth(wich is VERY young, mind you. Think about it. if the earth was origonally a lot of moltem lava, than THAT WOULD HAVE CONTAMINATED THE EVIDENCE. Then there's whater on earth. THAT CONTAMINATED THE EVIDENCE. then theres the usage of that material by man, by wich man refines and melts metal. THAT WOULD CONTAMINATE THE EVIDENCE. And also, heres a thought. All materials were made in the begining of time, the big bang, corect? than all rocks of the same mass should have the same amount of radio carbon, correct? WELL THEN HOW COULD THE SCIENTESTS TELL THAT A STONE SPEARHEAD WAS ONLY 20,000 YEARS OLD?!?!?!?) Thus the earth's age can be pinpointed to HOW THE HECK DO WE KNOW? and it can also be said that the scienctists that do carbon dating are COMPLEATLY BUNK, and they DON'T KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MATH, and also, that they are BRAINWASHED TO THINK SERTAIN THINGS(I'v watched many times on P.B.S, people saying that such and such rock is this old, and such and such mineral, is that old(Wich i have JUST disproved))

CARBON DATING is bunk. You guys don't know SQUAT about earths age, and no Carbon Dating "System" Is going to be able to find out. Thus, you have no basis to the earths age. Or anythings age, for that matter. And thus, we can rule out evolution, becous evolution needs time, and we just don't have that much time on the earth.

The only thing that I see, thats "bunk" Is that you ceep on just stating that things are rong,(You just say"Thats bunk" and leave it at that) and putting forth no evidence to support it(By the way, I still need those posts that i forgot to read... Someone?) And then, you say something that is TOTALLY "Bunk" Wich I can explain in one sentance(see begining of post) but then i have to explain it further to prove my point.

[Antichrist_Online]

Pie, we've been through this before, and you don't understand that radio carbon dating is not the only evidence, it's just one thing that says the same as all the other evidence, look up Zircon crystal dating, uranium/lead ratioing, sediment laying, etc.

You have disproved nothing, those changes, due to men or natural forces are WHY these dating techniques work, it causes differences between them and the surronding rocks. If you lived in a white house with everything white and I introduced a red hammer, you would be able to tell it was from a different place, same only this is over peroids of time not distance.

The stuff you said makes these dating techinques "bunk" was disproved to have an effect on most techinques and in some cases it is why they work, eg water and sediments or the molten nature of the Earth's core and Zircon crystal dating.

Unless you actually think for yourself and stop believing that shouting what you've been told makes it more right that the evidence of people who have studied things longer than you have been alive, then we cannot have a reasoned debate.

[Jack Dudeman]

Pie, I'm not going to respond to anymore of your posts. They are full of jibberish, and you profess that you've proved things, when you have done nothing of the sort. You just said that scientists bunk, brainwashed, and don't understand math. I don't even know how to respond to that nonsense. And please do a little research about dating systems and other scientific processes before you claim to know anything about them. Besides, all those caps in your writing makes me fell like your yelling or ranting. It's irritating.

You are just too young to have this discussion, and rely on what you've been told as truth without further thought. I just hope that someday you can look back on the things you've been saying here, and realize how silly they sound.

Prophecies, like religion, require faith. Even if some 'prophecies' have come true, measure those up against all the ones that haven't come true and see what you get. Besides, even if truly inexplicable 'prophecies' or 'miracles' have occurred, that does not mean that there’s a god. It could just mean that a person has peculiar skills or technological help that we don’t understand. We all can imagine how easy it would be to go to a primitive tribe of humans and impress them with 'god-like' skills that are the result of our technology, medicine, or knowledge. It is reasonable to consider that we could be fooled by technology that is far in advance of our own. As Sir Arthur C. Clarke wrote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[Dee]

I'm sure technology wasn't found around 1,500 years ago.

[KVZ]

I'm sure technology wasn't found around 1,500 years ago.

Good point. On other planets they could found technology thousands years ago

[Jack Dudeman]

I'm sure technology wasn't found around 1,500 years ago.

I'm not sure what you mean by that... could you explain?

[Dee]

Well you said:

It could just mean that a person has peculiar skills or technological help that we don’t understand.

And I replied with:

I'm sure technology wasn't found around 1,500 years ago.

That's all...

[Pie]

Ok... Start frome the begining.

Pleas, one thing I haven't proven, So I can then go do a search and then prove it to you. that easy.

What I have said, is that Carbon dating system is bunk. Some scientists are brainwashed(Ex, the 10 years they didn't beleave that germs could live in the stomack)

Also... You know, In that site i wen't to when I DID study about carbon dating, They never told me that you can't use the carbon 14 system in rocks, or minerals. Hmm. What they don't tell you in school, folks.

And also, I rely on what I'v been tought becous some places i go and search don't tell me things. But......Anyway... http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs200 ... dating.asp
They know alot more about carbon dating than me.

And you know what? I am very offended that you, Who don't know anything about me, and what I do, Thing that I just take whats given to me. Becous If I did that, Man, I WOULD be an athiest. I for one, don't take what scientists say until i study on it. Also, When I'm proven rong in a debait, I don't just ceep on saying that, If People would UNSTEAD of being JACK ASSES, would actually tell me HOW I AM RONG, UNSTEAD OF TREATING ME LIKE A CHILD(like YOU are doing*grumble grumble*) I WOULD do something about it.

Also, you know what? Prophasies are ALWAYS right(When they come frome the same person(If that person is ACTUALLY a prophet of god)) And also... If miracles happen(Un scientific ones) and prophasies come true...... I'd say that is a very good sign that god is true...

[Jack Dudeman]

Good for you, and I'm not going to be lured into some ludicrous arguement with you. I'm not going to respond to your drivel anymore. You're impossible to have a discussion with, and I'm not going to waste my time anymore. This is the last post that I'll be acknowledging anything that you say. I don't care if that offends you, but that's that.

[Pie]

First off... you just did. Secont, Stop being a jack ass. We all learn something everyday, don't we? third, If you don't respond to my words, respond to the site that I put up. Also, PLEAS, Show me something I did rong so I can eradify it!!! I'm SERIOUS!!! Quote that one place I forgot to respond about, or that I didn't clearify properly.(I'm not being sarcastic... I really need someone to do something like that.)

[Nalaris]

Jack, shut up about how superior you are to Pie and start fighting him! If you don't debate against his points with anything other than 'I'm right, you're wrong' and he gives actual reason, he automatically wins. In other words, Pie just beat you in this debate. Hard.

As for prophecy, yes, it's true that someone who could somehow predict the future without the help of God could've inspired the prophets. But whoever it was has never been wrong. Now, there are false prophets. I don't know about the blood coming out of facets and know for a fact that no one knows the day nor the time that Christ will come again, so anything about the year 2012 is bunk.

I determine which book is right by listening to two things. One, common sense. There are gaping holes in the philosophies of many churches, but not in mine. Second, I feel a sense of reassurance in my beliefs from what I feel. I follow that (most of the time).

The only prophecies which tend to come true are those not based on predictions (with obvious and notable exceptions). For example, thirty years before it happened there was no way to tell that America would plunge itself in Civil War. There's no way Daniel could have predicted the exact date of Christ's visit to Jerusalem. No way that Joseph Smith could have predicted Armageddon. But they all happened.

Dee, just out of curiousity, do only Muslims fall under the category of 'believers'(when determining who stays in Hell and for how long)? Or do all people's of the book count? Because you said something earlier about how Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

I know exactly how the world's going to end. Well, not exactly, but pretty close. I know that when Christ comes again the world will be embroiled in war between the alliance of Israel and Zion and everyone else. I know that there will be something capable of reducing men to ash in the blink of an eye (nuclear weapons are a popular theory). I know that America will lose ground to foreign invaders (presumably for the first time, unless foreign invasion occurs before WWIII) until the army employs the 'boys from the mountains'(residents of Utah) at which point the playing field will be leveled and America will begin to reclaim captured territory. That's pretty thorough.

[Jack Dudeman]

Sorry, Dee. I still don't understand what you mean.

Nalaris, you need to calm down too. What are you talking about? Fighting Pie? There's no winning or losing a discussion like this. That's the second time I've heard someone say something about winning this debate. This isn't really a debate at all, just a discussion. Pie's reasons are ridiculous, and I'm not going to try to comprehend what he's saying anymore.

And don't you think that if you'd been born in Egypt, you'd be Muslim? Are there any Mormons in the Middle East anywhere? I don't know, but I'd guess there aren't many. You see, people take on the religion that they were taught as a child. Often, if someone of authority (mom, dad, etc.) tells us something, we take it as truth. And since we can't be experts at everything, we are susceptible to believing in things and ideas that aren't true.

As we grow up, we learn and experience the world. As we do this, we form a map in our minds of what the world is like. This map becomes a truth filter. When we look at a new idea, we typically compare it to the mental map that we have. If the idea fits well in the map, we can add it. If the idea doesn’t fit, we have a problem. We must either discard the idea, or make a change to the map. Change is difficult and often painful, so many people tend to discard ideas that don’t fit their mental maps.

In science, if the facts don’t fit the theory, the theory is modified or tossed out. In religion, if the facts don’t fit the theory, the facts are often tossed out. All too often, people reject evidence and the findings of science because they conflict with their religious assumptions. With their minds unhinged from the real world, they can have problems distinguishing fantasy from reality.

This is what I believe, and it makes sense to me. Now, let's please stop the mudslinging and continue on our discussion.

By the way, didn't you just say that Joseph Smith predicted armageddon, and it happened? I'm pretty sure that the end of the world hasn't came and went without my noticing. And you said also that you know almost exactly how the world's going to end. How can you possibly know that? And the people of Utah will beat back the enemy and retake captured lands? That sounds a little egocentrical, coming from the people of Utah.

[Nixit]

Pie wrote:

The idea of god in science, Is that god created it, god gives free rain to it, and now here we are, saying that god cant have created it(although i can see no other way that god could not NOT have created it.) Have you ever thought, that maby, JUST MABY god dosen't use devine intervention? Did you ever stop and think that MABY god uses NATURE to do miracle? That maby god dosen't always just snap his fingers and make something true? NO!!! He starts a reaction thousands of years ahead, and then he just plans that moses will be borne at this time, and he will say this at this secont, and the such.

If that's true, then there's no point in praying, eh?

[Nalaris]

Armageddon hasn't come yet. I never said that. And the people of Utah didn't make that prophecy. I'm fairly certain it came from Joseph Smith before Utah had ever been colonized. And of course this is a debate. Look at it. People bring up points. Those points are fought for and against. People take sides on different issues. And you're ignoring Pie either because a)You can't effectively debate against him or b)You just don't want to bother yourself comprehending his terrible grammar and spelling. I can't say for sure which it is, but I'm guessing the first one. It just seems to fit your personality more. And if you think I've never had doubts about my religion you don't know me very well. But according to what I feel inside my current religion is correct. It also makes a lot more sense than most others. I probably would be Muslim if I were born in Egypt. I don't know whether or not I'd convert to Mormonism because I don't know if I'd have the scripture available to me to point out that it's correct. I think that's why I was born where I am. I have a lot of willpower, but if it was concentrated in the wrong place it might do more harm than good. Forgive me if I've insulted you, but to be frank I'm really sick and tired of you insulting Pie who has, by the way, done his homework quite thoroughly. While I'm not sure I believe him, Pie does have a good point. It's worth debating.

Now, God knows us all extremely well. If, based on what he knows of us, he figures out that person A will not pray, than he doesn't program into the Earth 'do X thing for person A'. If he figures that person A will pray, he does program into the Earth 'do X thing for person A'. And he's never been wrong.

[kinvoya]

Now, God knows us all extremely well. If, based on what he knows of us, he figures out that person A will not pray, than he doesn't program into the Earth 'do X thing for person A'. If he figures that person A will pray, he does program into the Earth 'do X thing for person A'. And he's never been wrong.

Could you explain this a little more? It kinda sounds like you are saying that everyone who prays gets good things from God and everyone who doesn't gets nothing. We all know this isn't true, of course. I just woke up so maybe I'm misreading, tho.

I personally am not capable of and will never worship any person, place or thing in this lifetime. I can't even quite figure out what worshiping is all about. I think that the belief that a God or gods require worship from humans is just the sillyest thing imaginable. I would like to add here, however, that I have great respect and even some envy for devoutly religious people...those who aren't hurting other people.

For me it seems that any creater God who might exist does not care at all about our physical beings. Seeing the nightmarish things that happen to so many innocent people this can only be true. If not then God is a real jerk. Evil exists but only in the minds of damaged men and women and in the indifference and cruelty of nature.

"Evolution loves death more than it loves you or me." Annie Dillard

If a creator regards us at all I believe it is for our spiritual aspect and not for our physical ins and outs (heh). If we do bad things to people, animals, the earth, the atmosphere, etc. then we damage our spirits. This is what God sees like a neon light, not how many times we went to church or prayed or didn't have sex or whatever.

I too have felt instances of transcental oneness with all creation...for no reason at all, just out of the blue. For me this seemed more like some cosmological connection between all matter than a relationship with God. I've also felt de ja vu (spelling? sorry) and I'm told it is a wacky brain chemical mixup. Some studies have shown that deeply religious people have a particular kind of chemical makeup in their brains which predisposes them to religious belief. I've also noticed that a lot of ex-addicts become deeply religious. Something must be going on there.

Just some barely awake musings.