Religion

[Mykey]

I apologise, I too would like to express the opinion.

[formerly known as hf]

Why are you getting bogged down in the semiotics of science?

Theories, hypotheses and 'educated guesses' are fairly interchangeable terms in common parlance.

They mean quite different things in strict academic science, which, pie, you clearly have no experience or knowledge of, and so are doing nothing but just being an annoyance by nit-picking about terms you have no full understanding of.

[Pie]

Again, I must quote that famous person who said that famous thing.

Meh

Lets all just drop this and move along, before someone gets.... wait... to late for that....

[Jack Dudeman]

Why do you keep wanting everyone to drop this discussion, Pie? I'm learning a lot by reading lots of different opinions on the same subject!

And if people are getting offended, then stop reading. Let us reasonable people have an interesting discussion.

[Pie]

Becous it gets us nowere. Perhaps it DOES tell people about the diferen't views they have. but I THINK we've herd everyones veiw point.

[Nixit]

Becous it gets us nowere. Perhaps it DOES tell people about the diferen't views they have. but I THINK we've herd everyones veiw point.

How does one get somewhere, anyway? I am personally fascinated by the different perspectives of everyone on this forum, maybe more so because I'm still developing my views. I think this topic will end when people have no more to say. I don't know, that could be next post, but it could be awhile, and I still find it all interesting.

[Jack Dudeman]

As I said before, science and religion don't mix well, but I thought this was interesting:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/31/news/pray.php

[Nalaris]

You're one of those conspiracy people, aren't you?

You know, one of my girl budies just call herself conspiracy. I like that, I agree... Any problem for you with that?

Not ecspecially. I didn't understand that fully, but I don't THINK I have a problem with that.

There's more evidence for God than aliens.

What evidences? Humbug! Show me those!

The only prophecy that has failed to come true are those related to armageddon. Joseph Smith predicted that on the American continent brother would fight brother for four years. Joseph Smith died before the Civil War ever took place.

Aliens, based off evidence alone and not personal experience, have about the same likelihood as God, just slightly lower. For both there's witnesses and non-conclusive physical evidence.

I have my personal experiences. Wanna discuss those?

Yes! It brings into the equation a previously unknown factor.

The only difference is that a lot more people claim to have witnessed God than to have witnessed aliens.

Even you heard about "Minority Raport" based on novel Philip K. Dick? That is no argument for me what you said. Brainwashing people about god is very easy. Look, in Poland there is one sect's radiostation which does brainwashing about god. Every wise Pole knows about that. Radio Marry (called also as radio which have snout, because it reads the same in Polish) with Father Director Rydzyk, but those mohair beret grandmas just believes in that humbug! Sic!

I'm not sure I understood any of that, except that somewhere along the lines there was a brainwashing radio station...meh, I won't argue with what I can't read. I have heard of the Minority Report, but I can't seem to recall any details...

And I'm one of the people who can feel some part of God's power, or of the Holy Ghost's power, or of whatever power I'm feelin

That is your opinion, but my opinon can be that some Aliens can telepaticaly manipulate you making you believing in them, as they are god and holy ghost. What smart those aliens must be

I can't debate against that because it's utterly untestable and unprovable. There is no possible way to gather evidence for or against until the existance of aliens has been thoroughly proven or disproven.

And there's laboratory evidence that aliens may be hallucinations caused by strange conditions rarely encountered in nature.

Yeah, and I was born on LSD?

No, you just fell prey to those situations. It rarely happens naturally, but has before. It's not the result of any drug.

Am I the only one who finds it strange that the only people who 'remember' alien encounters that haven't been proven wrong or nearly proven wrong got the memories from counseling and, sometimes, hypnotism?

Yeah, I autohypnotised myself to contact them just for have more arguments against you... Wait... I just have big transmisions form them again...

You contact them, huh? Tell me more. That raises quite a few interesting questions.

Fear of aliens has also attacked me at some of these times. A quick prayer later and it all evaporated.

Yeah, Prayers Dept. always for your service

You have no actual argument against my point and therefore respond with slightly witty quips. A common defense.

What're you, drunk? By following the teachings of my religion, people are happier. Period.

Can I quote Lenin about religion? It is opium for people

Who cares what Lenin says? My religion leads people to a better lifestyle on Earth, never mind beyond it.

I can't remember, has anyone provided scientific evidence as to why God can't have started the Big Bang?

Oh, so god just cut the ribbon of the new factory? And who made it for him? Come on guy!

He made it for him. He programmed the entire Universe in advance, compacting it in to one small speck. Then he blew it up. Or so the theory goes. There's no way to truly be sure.

And in the future, try to spell my name right.[/i]

[Jack Dudeman]

I asked earlier 'who made god?' Someone answered: No one made god.

Now, if no one made god, and he just is, then why can't the universe just be also?

If another god did in fact make the god that made the universe, then we either have a paradox, or an infinite number of gods.

[Dee]

As I said before, science and religion don't mix well, but I thought this was interesting:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/31/news/pray.php

I disagree. Science and relegion mix very very well.

I can't explain more now.

One more thing, I just remembered this.. Prayers are not always answered... I prayed God for making my sister live after the surgery, but she died. Now, I know that God didn't answer my prayers, but He will reward me with something bigger because of my unanswered prayers.

(Can't stop posting )

[Gender]

I think, that there is no real correlation between knowledge or science and faith. It is really a personal matter.

I agree that even the most valuable scientist can believe. There is a quotation by (i think but i'm not sure) Ludvik Pasteur that: "Small amount of knowledge moves away from God, big knowledge moves you closer to God"

On the other hand, there is an idea by Richard Dawkins and his "mems". He thinks that the belivers are somewhat intoxicated by the idea of faith.

A priest, that I know, and that I very often talk with said something like that: religion is not for cowards. It is hard, to belive in something, to fight for it. And we should talk, we should present our view on the world. It doesn't matter if you are a muslim, a christian or an atheist.

[Jack Dudeman]

Religion is the antithesis of science. First of all, look up some information for yourself concerning Giordano Bruno or Lucilio Vanini. Then try to find an instance where any scientist murdered any religious person because of their beliefs.

Now... I'd like to introduce a phenomenon called 'god of the gaps.' For those who are not familiar with this idea, here it is: For everything we don't understand scientifically, we say god did it, or is responsible. Until a few hundred years ago, people thought god controlled everything. Why is there thunder? Why does the wind blow? Why did someone get sick and die? 'God did it' has been the universal answer for why anything happens.

Science looks for natural causes, while religion looks for supernatural causes. As we understand more and more about the universe, the gap where God might function grows smaller and smaller. Every time we learn more, God has less room to operate.

If we say that god caused the big bang, then we no longer have to try to figure out what actually caused it, because we already know: God did it.

[SekoETC]

Heyy, when did you get back?

[Pie]

And that, my frend, is proof of not reading the bible.

You know what? I have to give some of my credit to my mother. She knows ALOT(well... at least more than me....) about the bible.

In acts it talks about the city of boriea. when the apostle came and preached in this city, the people surched the scriptures and studyd out what they were saying, looking for proof that it was true, compairing their scriptures to his. (by the way, they were jewish... converting to cristian(BIG change right there...) And there, the bible sais to STUDY STUFF OUT!! and it sais MANY TIMES in the bible to "Study the scriptures" timothy right there... and many other places. paul also sais, that you should work out your oun salvation. Now, don't misinturpret this. This dosen't mean that you should interpret the scriptures yourselves(To some extent) It means you should Try to understand the scriputures, so that you can tell what is heresy (BIG word right there) And what isn't. so, before you try and sling mud apon the bible, try and read it, will you?

[Pie]

Oh, and as to your"Science and religion don't mix) Heres a quoete frome page 34... or 35... can't remember...

Also... You know what? Science can live in TOTAL harmony with religion. IT just depends on the religion. Such as the old catholic church... with all its coruption and stuff.... well.. no science there. BUT you know what? Alot of scientific people WHERE CRISTIANS!! lets give an example...
Roger Bacon,Johannes Kepler,Johannes Baptista van Helmont,Blaise Pascal,Robert Boyle,Anton van Leeuwenhoek,Carolus Linnaeus,Leonhard Euler,John Dalton,Michael Faraday,John Frederick William Herschel,Matthew Fontaine, Maury James Prescott, Joule Gregor Mendel, William Thomson, Lord Kelvin James Clerk, Maxwell George Washington, Carver Arthur and Stanley Eddington

Some people, who were cristians with the same mindset as yourself Jack. They can't just take pree-chewd things, such as, god created it. They want to know how god created it, why he created it, what it does, why it does that, and how it does that.

P.S.(actually.... I'v alredy edited that out....

And also, Religion can't live with POLITICAL church(you know what i mean.) When a church become corupt, and dosen't follow the bible, and stuff.... it becomes like the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH(dern inquisition(NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!)) ITS WHEN THE CHURCH INTERPRETS THE BIBLE FOR ITSELF!!! There we go. If only we had a church like the EARLY early EARLY church.