Religion

[the_antisocial_hermit]

3shy is lazy about it, too... *giggles*

[Chris Johnson]

CJ is also a slight laggard in those ways ...

But growing up in London - I never needed to learn to drive

(Plus has a long suffering wife who can be coaxed to ferry me around every now and then ... but only on the condition that I spend a fortune on taxis at the weekend )

[formerly known as hf]

You know who I hate?
Mormons
Damned weirdos.

Totally un-natural, I can't think of any other species that believes in that rubbish.

All that barn-raising and polygamy - let alone how in-bred they all are. Disgusting I say. Think about the children!

Lock them up and throw away the key I say. The world would be a better place without all their hat-wearing and tea-totalness.

Barn-raising and hat-wearing are the Amish (and Mennonites), and they never hurt a fly. And the mainstream Mormons have nothing to do with polygamy. Actually, the leader of a splinter cult of polygamists, Warren Jeffs, has just been added to the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List. I'd be interested to see what Josh Monkey has to say about Warren Jeffs, or the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in general, or if he even knows they exist.

*nods

I know, I deliberately mixed Amish and Mormons up, and I know polygamy isn't common at all - sarcasm tends not to travel well via text. My point being, that much hatred for homosexuals is based upon biased, and highly innacurate stereotypes. That, and just blind intollerance.

Although I wasn't aware about the Warren Jeffs thing, which is quite interesting.

But growing up in London - I never needed to learn to drive

Ditto here. It's just never seemed worth it.

[Pie]

You know who I don't like? Jehova witnesses. people who excape frome that religion have had to go into aftershock therapy. I don't know why though... All i know is that people have had to go into aftershock therapy.

But you know what I also hate? when people start verry long debaits, even though they know that it won't do any good. caus this didn't, and now were onto another topic.

My thoughts about homosexualness: hey, it's you whos digging your grave. You aren't hurting me.

My thoughts about laws: let people dig there oun graves, but make shure that grave can only fit one person in it. there should be laws about drinking, and stuff.

my thoughts about eligal imigrism(gosh i'm board...) let them stay. Put them on the tax list... thingy, and just ceep it at that.

Ok, raving is finished.

[Stan]

Man, I'm glad I came into this after it changed into a discussion about teenage driving. (is there an emoticon for relief?)

The barn raising comment thing was funny as hell, though it doesn't apply. By the way, I think HF was just turning the argument around to prove a point.

This won't make me popular, I'm sure, but I don't think homosexuality is any more unnatural than using God's name in vain and the 1000's of other things people do each day.

To the Christians out there I would say this...God will be no more condemning of a homsexual than you or I for withholding grace or love to a gay person (or any other person for that matter).

[Valsum]

If two people of the same sex love each other, nope, I'm sure He won't condemn them. But it's clear that the homosexual act, the sexual act, is a sin. Something unnatural. At least if you understand sex as the consumation of love and admit the fruit of it are the children.

Yes, I'm arcaic, I'm catholic...but I'm tolerant with homosexual people, even while most of them hate the Church. But let me ask something...how many gays are there that only think to party, have fun, and sex with someone, and have no love in their lives?

Peace.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

how many gays are there that only think to party, have fun, and sex with someone, and have no love in their lives?

Such is not the long-term case of most homosexuals I've known. No different than some of those young, crazy people that aren't ready to settle down yet who eventually do want to find love to keep.

It is simply one of those stereotypes often portrayed in too many places. Numbers are not easy to find; the ones most likely to be noticed are the ones that fall into the stereotype. The ones that don't, like my uncle and his husband, will be overlooked or not sought out because they won't frequent the places most people would be looking for them in.

Personally, I cannot say what is right or wrong, and I won't argue either way. I try not to fall into the trap of stereotyping, but I know I must fail horribly at it sometimes.

[Jack Dudeman]

Pie, I don't even know what you're talking about... 'digging their own graves'? What the hell does that mean?

And there are just as many straight people who only think to party, have fun, and have sex with someone!

As for homosexual being unnatural... That is about the most misinformed thing I've ever heard. As stated earlier, many animals engage in homosexual acts. And love and sex go hand in hand... Sure, people of any sexual orientation have sex without being in love, but 99.999999% of couples that are in love have sex. (unless they are physically unable)

I would just like to know why people think that being gay is wrong?

Someone please give me one reason why homosexuality is wrong, without quoting a holy book, or relating their reasoning to any religious belief.

[Stan]

Yes, I'm arcaic, I'm catholic...but I'm tolerant with homosexual people, even while most of them hate the Church. But let me ask something...how many gays are there that only think to party, have fun, and sex with someone, and have no love in their lives?

Peace.

I hear you. My point is this. Christians shouldn't be pointing out the sins of of others, especially non-Christians, as sins greater than their own.

Remember what is found in Matthew 7?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Now, as one that has "preached" on this forum I would point out that there is a difference between judging someone and sharing the truth. In sharing the truth we are telling the story. In judging we are determining guilt and punishment. We shouldn't judge but should share the truth.

As far as why its wrong without quoting scripture, that's not possible for me. I derive my sense of right and wrong from the creator. If He says it wrong I believe it is wrong. That is my moral authority. How can someone argue for or against something if they can't use their moral compass as their guide?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Pie, I don't even know what you're talking about... 'digging their own graves'? What the hell does that mean?

Means they're the cause of their own demise, be it slow or quick, by drugs or slitting their wrists or eating badly all their life and never exercising. I kind of liked Pie's quote about letting "people dig their own graves, but make sure only one can lie in it."

I agree with you Stan, in respects to any religion or beliefs a person has.. share, but don't judge by them. Everyone should be able to make a choice on what is right for them spiritually free of the fear of judgement. Doesn't mean it happens though..

[Jack Dudeman]

I know what the quote means, but it has no merit in the discussion.

Aren't we all 'digging our own graves' in one way or another?

My point is that homosexuality is no more deadly that heterosexuality.

[Dee]

I am sure that there are disadvantages for homosexuality. I won't quote a holy book or anything, but let's be logical about it.

The numbers of homosexuals is growing. What would happen if the whole world, or most of it, became homosexuals? There will be no reproduction.

God wants us to reproduce, to worship Him.

That's all I can think of for now, I will post later about more disadvantages.

I am not judging anyone, I am using my "freedom of speech" right.

[Jack Dudeman]

I think it is safe to say that the number of gay/lesbian people is not so much on the rise, but that the acceptance of homosexuality is allowing more folks to be themselves.

I, like most people, am totally heterosexual, and to say that everyone on Earth might eventually turn gay, and end our species is just silly.

I'm sorry, but I can't accept 'God wants us to reproduce, to worship Him', because that is a religious opinion.

[Jack Dudeman]

Sorry for the double post, but I had an afterthought...

I'm all for perpetuation of the species. My wife and I plan to have children very soon. But, not everyone has to have offspring to continue the human race. I'm sure there have been a great many people throughout history that had no children, but here we are.

[Dee]

Someone wanted to know the 'disadvantages' to homosexuality and I only listed one thing. There are yet more to come, I hope.