Religion

[Dee]

May I just say one thing?

The Qur'an has never been modified. They are direct words from Allah, no some "guy" wrote them down.

Got it, Pie?

[Jack Dudeman]

How can it be that no one made god?

If god exists, he/she/it must have been created, right?

[Pie]

So.... Your saying that somehow.... Someone got past two armed roman guards? And.... they were sleaping... How did they move the stone? And if they were sleaping, than they would have been EXECUTED!!! were they? Comon, tell me. were they? You say you were a cristian, so you should know both sides of the story.

There are over 5000 HISTORICAL TEXTS WRITTEN IN GREEK, ALL OF THEM THE SAME. If you have ANY question about the bible, just look it up in those.

And plus... Can you give me ANY OTHER examples of memory changing, in any other text, if the length frome its hapening to it's writting down is 200 years? Well... Lets instead try 30 years. 3* years frome his death, to mark writing his gosple. Go ahead, look it up. Oh.. never-mind, I'le look em up for y64
http://www.google.com/searchhl=en&lr=&q ... ls+written
As for evolution... I got nothing, really. But cristianity is somthing i can handle.

[Pie]

How can it be that no one made god?

If god exists, he/she/it must have been created, right?

Nobody knows. One of the great questions of life.

[formerly known as hf]

Pie, you're making no sense whatsoever. Your last couple of posts read like mad raving rants, which I can't make head nor tail of.

All these things you call 'proof' - the hundreds on the mount - the apostles - those who wrote the Bible - those who martyred themselves - the only 'proof' you have of these events is the Bible - a text who's validity I've already brought into question.

What proof have you got that anyone martyred themselves for Christ apart from the Bible?
What proof have you got of any of the 'miracles' in the Bible, apart from the accounts in the Bible?

You use the Bible as 'proof' - when you have no way of validating the Bible - it is only proof because you believe in it.

Why have you gone back down the road of saying 'people martyred themselves for Jesus, so the things in the Bible must be true' argument?

I have already explained how that is an invalid argument, as it can be applied to any number of texts.

And why are you so indignant that another religion might possibly include Christ, without beliving him to be the son of God? - Christians do not have the sole right over the depiction and understanding of Christ.



Just be honest, pie, you have a blind faith in the Bible. Stop trying to pretend that your certainty of its validity is based upon anything other than this blind faith. Your determination to 'proove' the events in the Bible is fundamentally flawed - in that you constantly refer to the Bible as the 'proof' of the validity of the events it describes. It's circular and is thoroughly unconvincing.

[formerly known as hf]

But cristianity is somthing i can handle.

Is the crux of the matter. You have had this belief so heavily drummed into you, and you're completely hooked, line and sinker, that you can't even begin to dare question it.

Fair enough - but please stop making yourself look like a fool, and basically insulting my own, and others intelligence, by desperately running in circles on the issue, and trying to engage in an argument from an untenable position. You cannot validate the events depicted in the Bible by refering to the Bible itself as a source of validation. Such an argument is circular, flawed and totally unconvincing.

[sock]

If everyone who claims to be religious, truly believed what their religion claims, the world would actually be a nice place. People use belief to propogate their own ends, regardless of whether god exists or not, religion is a dangerous thing.

It created a 23 page forum thread, it creates wars, and what does it give in return? Every now and again a saint comes along, i have two words, fuck that. If you want to believe that there is an eternal all loving force in this universe, fine, but show it through your actions not your words: give your money to the poor, work for cafod, help your fellow man, do not incite hatred and debate on a forum, where life changing information is rarely gathered.

The only position that is 100% foolproof is agnosticism, so you argue all you like, i'll be laughing from the pearly gates \o.

[Dee]

I like this guy!

Except.. You have to believe in God to go to heaven.

[sock]

But he forgives all! It's not like i killed anything, except faith. Hmm, maybe that's considered like genocide or something in heaven, ahhh nevermind, hell sounds like fun too.

[Dee]

Yeah.. So much fun.. I won't be able to join you, sorry!

[sock]

Painful to hear, although i suppose it isn't too difficult to corrupt people, so i should have some company. Party at 666! Saints not welcome.

[Dee]

Oh, and welcome to the forums

[Jack Dudeman]

I myself am an agnostic. I attended many years of church as a child... United Methodist, to be precise. But then, when the pastors couldn't answer some questions I had concerning Jesus and the bible to my liking, I decided that I'd think for myself from now on.

What I find most troubling with Christianity is the threat of hell for nonbelievers. Because if there's a heaven, there must be a hell. And to insist that there's an afterlife is moot because no one knows. Just because a book written by man says something, doesn't make it so.

And something that I have always thought about since I was a young man is what happened to the souls of the billions and billions of humans who lived on Earth before any 'prophets' came to spread the word of their religion.

There were countless devout spiritual people here long before Jesus or Muhammed. I think about the Native Americans and their rituals, and the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman cultures, and I can't believe that all of them, priests and all, are burning for eternity in a 'hell' thought up by man.

I understand faith, but I'm actually offended by the Catholic church's stance that all that don't accept Jesus as their personal savior are doomed to eternal pain and anguish.

[sock]

I have bore witness too, and am the subject (In a way), of the fabled 1337 post! It must be a sign.

[N-Aldwitch]

Like day 1337 in Cantr... No one gave it much notice.

Anyway, religion: I dislike the thought of there not being a god but I don't believe in one anyway.