Religion

[Pie]

Dee, Your religion Shouldn't have Jesus in it. I mean, Jesuses entyer life was full of kindness, and forgiving. Now, The quaran Has alot of 'Kill the Infadell' stuff in it. How Jesus could POSSOBLY be in somthing that PREJUDOUSE and UNFORGIFING..... I don't even know how that happened.

. It sais in OUR religion that he is. It may say somthing differen't in your religion. We cannot prove anything about him, exept by these books, and I must say... How did Whoever wrote about Jesus in the Quaran know anything about him? The quaran was written in, like... 700 A.D. or somthing. And I'm more inclined to believe somthing that was made closer to Jesuses life.

[Dee]

I pity you, Pie.

Well... I don't really blame you, you're American, you're only 13 years old. Can get manipulated easily.

You answered your own question!! How can someone know about Jesus when the Qur'an was written in 700 A.D. Well.. Wasn't Jesus dead by then?? People must have heard about him!!

Dee, Your religion Shouldn't have Jesus in it. I mean, Jesuses entyer life was full of kindness, and forgiving. Now, The quaran Has alot of 'Kill the Infadell' stuff in it. How Jesus could POSSOBLY be in somthing that PREJUDOUSE and UNFORGIFING..... I don't even know how that happened.

Firstly, that was very VERY very offending!!! Prejudice and unforgiving???

Allah has 99 names, The Forgiving is one of them. What do you even know about Islam??

I suggest you get some more information about Islam (correct information, preferrably) before you come here and crticize it.

[formerly known as hf]

Dee, Your religion Shouldn't have Jesus in it.

Why not? I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus ecisted in some form, although he certainly wasn't the son of God

I mean, Jesuses entyer life was full of kindness, and forgiving. Now, The quaran Has alot of 'Kill the Infadell' stuff in it.

That's the biggest load of shit I have ever heard. That is really, very very predjudiced, and has no basis.

Yes - some people use the Quran as a valid argument for killing others.

Many more people have done that with the Bible. According to the Bible, homosexuals should be killed, there are even passages in the Bible which call for the death of Muslims. It's all about interpretation. You're full of shit pie.

How Jesus could POSSOBLY be in somthing that PREJUDOUSE and UNFORGIFING..... I don't even know how that happened.

Maybe actually try to get some information about what's in the Quran before you call it those things. You clearly know nothing at all about it. All you seem to be spouting is blatant predjudice, based on no personal knowledge of what it is you are taling about.

It sais in OUR religion that he is.

Again, Christianity does not have the sole right over the depiction and understanding of Jesus - that's bollocks pie.

How did Whoever wrote about Jesus in the Quaran know anything about him? The quaran was written in, like... 700 A.D. or somthing. And I'm more inclined to believe somthing that was made closer to Jesuses life.

? You argument is that because it was written after Jesus' life, the person who wrote it can't know anything about him.
So, you were born, what, about two millenia after Jesus? - so clearly, when you write about Jesus, you must know sweet fa about it, according to what you're saying.

The current Bible, the modern translations, were fully formed during the 15th Century onwards, much much later than the Quran, which has undergone much much less change than the Bible has.

[Pie]

true... And I apolagise.

I'm just trying to say, that the jesus were talking about...... Two differen't views. Does it say anything about jesus in the quaran(how do you spell it?) And if there is,how can that happen? How can somebody take a belief, such as jesus, and how he was risen, and distort it so much as this? I could even say that I pity YOU.

You see, paul had divine inspiration frome god. AND he lived and walked with Jesus. AND he was marterd for his writings, making them true. Now, either Paul's inspiration was fals, or...(who wrote the parts about jesus?) was.

And Dee, May I ask of you a favor? Do you know of any online Quaran places that i can go to and read the quaran?

[formerly known as hf]

I, personally, haven't read the Quran in full, although I've read select passages, translated, so I can't begin to say I'm an authority on the subject. For online stuff, I've used:

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/ is a great place, if you know what you're looking for
I've used http://www.mcb.org.uk/ - the 'Muslim Council for Britain' for some research I've done - although it's mostly context-specific.

As well as various academic sources.

Alongside this, I, admitedly, use the Wikipedia a lot, (not for research, but for base-facts) primarily because the sections on Islam have been very heavily scrutinised (for obvious reasons) and because of that, it's one of the few areas of the wiki I would actually trust to put forward a neutral and informative position. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran is the obvious place to start, and there are loads of useful links from that.

I apologise for my heavy attack on you pie, but I honestly find nothing more upsetting, frustrating and annoying than plain arrogance/ignorance and predjudice.

[Dee]

And Dee, May I ask of you a favor? Do you know of any online Quaran places that i can go to and read the quaran?

I'm so glad you asked

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM

I know it's very long, but at least try to read the last surahs, they're short.

[formerly known as hf]

How can somebody take a belief, such as jesus, and how he was risen, and distort it so much as this?

I could argue something similar - Jesus could not have risen from the grave, that's impossible, and he could not be the son of God, as there is no God - how could someone even consider saying he is the son of God, and rose from the dead - they must be blatant lies.

It's down to belief, just because you have your own personal belief, no matter how much you think it is proven by scriptures, it does not invalidate the beliefs of others.

You see, paul had divine inspiration frome god. AND he lived and walked with Jesus. AND he was marterd for his writings, making them true. Now, either Paul's inspiration was fals, or...(who wrote the parts about jesus?) was.

Was he? How do you know Paul ever existed? How do you know Jesus ever existed.

The Bible is the work of humans, which makes it inherently inaccurate, and at least partly, if not fully, fictional.

Using the Bible as proof of Jesus' life, is like using 'The Goblet of Fire' to proove Harry Potter is a real-life boy wizard...

[Dee]

Who is Paul?

[Pie]

Dee, Your religion Shouldn't have Jesus in it.

Why not? I'm not a Christian, but I believe Jesus ecisted in some form, although he certainly wasn't the son of God

I mean, Jesuses entyer life was full of kindness, and forgiving. Now, The quaran Has alot of 'Kill the Infadell' stuff in it.

That's the biggest load of shit I have ever heard. That is really, very very predjudiced, and has no basis.

Yes - some people use the Quran as a valid argument for killing others.

Many more people have done that with the Bible. According to the Bible, homosexuals should be killed, there are even passages in the Bible which call for the death of Muslims. It's all about interpretation. You're full of shit pie.

How Jesus could POSSOBLY be in somthing that PREJUDOUSE and UNFORGIFING..... I don't even know how that happened.

Maybe actually try to get some information about what's in the Quran before you call it those things. You clearly know nothing at all about it. All you seem to be spouting is blatant predjudice, based on no personal knowledge of what it is you are taling about.

It sais in OUR religion that he is.

Again, Christianity does not have the sole right over the depiction and understanding of Jesus - that's bollocks pie.

How did Whoever wrote about Jesus in the Quaran know anything about him? The quaran was written in, like... 700 A.D. or somthing. And I'm more inclined to believe somthing that was made closer to Jesuses life.

? You argument is that because it was written after Jesus' life, the person who wrote it can't know anything about him.
So, you were born, what, about two millenia after Jesus? - so clearly, when you write about Jesus, you must know sweet fa about it, according to what you're saying.

The current Bible, the modern translations, were fully formed during the 15th Century onwards, much much later than the Quran, which has undergone much much less change than the Bible has.

Alright... my answers will be a little out of order. First.... Podymouth.

Secont... I was born two mellenia after jesus, yes. but the evidence i use to back up my writings were made 6 years after his death.

Also, show me a passage in the bible about killing gays, and i will show you a passage about a nation wich has had many peoples hating it and trying to distroy and invade it, wich has striken back against and came into it's promised land. Thats one example of the gay prejudouse in the bible.

Cristianity COMES FROME JESUS AND HIS WORKS!! CRIST FOUNDED CRISTIANITY!! Cristianity is the belief that YOU GET TO HEAVEN THROUGH A RELATIONSHIP WITH CRIST!!! NOT PETTY WORKS!! one exeample of the beliefs that CRIST LAID DOUN that ISLAM DOES NOT SUPPORT. you CANNOT truly believ, that a religion that doesen't support the SIMPELEST OF THINGS can USE CRIST AS A PART OF THEYR RELIGION???

Man, that ^ would be like me, making a new and totaly Differen't statement about phisics AND USING ISSAC NEWTAN AS PROOF!!!


(EDIT: Appostle paul, he wrote Revelations, and I beleiev corinthians..

[Pie]

How can somebody take a belief, such as jesus, and how he was risen, and distort it so much as this?

I could argue something similar - Jesus could not have risen from the grave, that's impossible, and he could not be the son of God, as there is no God - how could someone even consider saying he is the son of God, and rose from the dead - they must be blatant lies.

It's down to belief, just because you have your own personal belief, no matter how much you think it is proven by scriptures, it does not invalidate the beliefs of others.

You see, paul had divine inspiration frome god. AND he lived and walked with Jesus. AND he was marterd for his writings, making them true. Now, either Paul's inspiration was fals, or...(who wrote the parts about jesus?) was.

Was he? How do you know Paul ever existed? How do you know Jesus ever existed.

The Bible is the work of humans, which makes it inherently inaccurate, and at least partly, if not fully, fictional.

Using the Bible as proof of Jesus' life, is like using 'The Goblet of Fire' to proove Harry Potter is a real-life boy wizard...

God. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN LISTENING HAVE YOU?????

man I wish I could type faster, so I wouldn't be so behind on this topic.

THE APOSTLES GOT MARTYRD for they're beliefs. Thus, THAT MEANS THEY ACTUALLY SAW JESUS DOING MERICALS(AS I HAVE ALREDY EXPLAINED!!!!!)

And plus. YOU CANT JUST state your side of a debait and think that will work. Thats just plain puffery.

It isn't doun to belief. LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE DONE!! EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID AS PROOF HAS BEEN REFRUTED BY ME!!! THINK ABOUT IT!!! ME!!! Either I'm much, much smarter than you... wich I am fairly smart, but not that smart, OR THIS DEBAIT HAS BEEN RIGED BY PROOF!!!

You know what? Using the quaran to proove that jesus wasen't the son of god, and to prove that jesus never died on the cross, that it was only a manikin, is also like using the goblet of fire to prove that harry potter is a real wizerd.

HEY!!!! Using a thery about evolution without any evience is ALSO like using the goblet of fire to prove that Harry potter is a real wizerd.

Alright. PROOF THAT JESUS ACTUALLY LIVED... AGAIN!!!!

http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/ For jesus.

Paul..... Whew... can't find it. Darn. DARN YOU GOOGLE!!( I'le ceep searching.....)

[Antichrist_Online]

Ahem. Pie we've had the evolution debate before, and I should think you'd notice the large body of supporting evidence.

Farmer, I'd have thought that you might have stayed out of the trap set by pie. You can't reason with a believer, only with a questioner. Believers have closed minds.

Dee, I consider you a 'questioner' as from my experience, you have looked for evidence and it has only strengthened what you believe, unlike those who try to dispute what they see or undermine the beliefs of others.

This may just be the wishy-washy-be excellent to each other-pagan side of me, but can't we just get allong, you are worshiping the same God. It may not be mine, but in general it is the same God, and ALL RELIGIONS have a variant of the most sacred law(to me): "To others you shall do no harm"

Also, Pie, I could see someone saw a woman in half, does it mean they did it? I once saw a 7ft Viking God beside me when watching telly, does that mean Thor is real? Humans are not infalible and the bible was first transmitted by word of mouth, ever played chinese whispers? In five minutes it can change a whole sentence, so is it that hard to imagine hyperboule over 50 years? Start with "This Jesus bloke said some good things, we should listen" and end with "Jesus, Son Of God commanded us to do these good things".

[Mykey]

The excellent message))

[Pie]

*Shakes his head* I have ALREDY explained this.

The fivehundred people at the Temple mount. What did they see? Did they see a halusination? Did they see a sinthetic statue? Did they see a guy dressed up like jesus? No. I'd say they saw jesus. And how do you explain the EMPTY TOOM that mary and them saw?

Another thing. Back then(AS I HAVE ALREDY SAID!!)it was common that The old testiment was memorised COMPLEATLY by jewish people. And the old testiment is like... 10 times longer than just the ONE GOSPLE that mathiew, mark, luke or jhon had to memorize.

Plus

Evolution is fals becaus of the thery of genetics. You either get your mom or your dad's D.N.A. or you get bluish-greenish eyes.

Anticrist, MABY IT'S YOU who has the closed mind, EVER THOUGHT OF THAT? After all of this, YOU DON'T HAVE A SHREAD OF PROOF AGAINST CRISTIANITY!!! MABY YOU HAVE THE CLOSED MIND!!!

And I must say, we are NOT worshiping the same god. As with islam and cristianity, HOW could paul get a totally differen't view of jesus than the person who proficed about jesus, and wrote about him in the Quaran?

[Valsum]

Pie even if you think you have the truth - believe me, I'm a future catholic priest and my faith is quite secured- you can't make others see it as the truth. You must respect other faiths, other cultures, other choices. You must understand that others might not see it as the truth. You can express your faith and your reasons to believe once, twice, but the true way to evangelize and/or show others how you are as christian is with facts, with an example.

Sorry but I just thought that your tone is a little too high.

[Antichrist_Online]

The Empty tomb is quite easy, someone moved the body, there was a whole day before they went to the tomb. Memorisation is not infalible, the written text has been changed many times since the original writing so nothing is constant.

The theory of Genetics contradicts evolution? My Gods how do you get that? Characteristics are passed on by genes, over time these can change due to random mutations in a code comprising thousands of indvitual parts. One base pair changes and bam! you've got a different genotype.

You say I have a closed mind because I'm against Christianity? I was a christian Pie, but furthur evidence and given other options which make more sense caused me to change my religion to what it is now, and my beliefs are strengthen by further questioning, occasionally changed, but that is how it should be. Five hunderd people saw something. What was written down is what 10 or 12 people saw. Less than 2%, and they were believers. When I was younger I believed what I was told, now I believe what I can back up with independent evidence. There is no shread of proof against christianity as it is an untestible hypothesis of the lines of there is no proof that I was not put on Earth by the Elder Gods to show my worthieness for the Hall of Heros and the battle at the end of days. Show me a test for that and then you'll have 'proof', which by the way is only true for a given value of true. Nothing can be proved, just failed to be disproven continously.

I know you aren't worshiping the gods I follow, but you are worshiping the same God as Jewish people and Islamic people, they are different evolutions of the same religion. Same being through different eyes.

Oh and by the way the Word Messiah is the Hebrew word for the Anointed One, as Chirst is the Greek.