99%

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Maybe it's because your father was a beekeeper, and his father was a beekeeper before him, and his father was a beekeeper before him... and you just want to follow in their footsteps which were something like, *runs away all helter-skelter away from the thread, voice growing fainter* "Ahhh!!!! I'm covered in bees!!!! Ahhh!!!!"

[Frits]

How I feel it ought to be, and hence I like this idea.

I thought it was part of the long term vision for the game to make a change similar to this?

That may possibly have been a suggestion where you don't specify a gathering project, you just start digging and stop when you like or have enough. This continous update idea would actually facilitate the gathering suggestion.

I agree that this would feel good but it's hardly realistic, in fact how cantr hands you an unexact amount of resources in exchange for time is very realistic i think. I.e. you know you will need 600 g of stone for a project. If you dig for 6 hours you'll have gathered a load of stone of which you have no way of knowing the exact weight, it might be enough or just short. Suppose it were 1000 potatoes you'd have to count them of which any normal person would inevitably lose track... or it'd just take another hour to make sure how many you've got until you know you are a few short!

[Solfius]

How I feel it ought to be, and hence I like this idea.

I thought it was part of the long term vision for the game to make a change similar to this?

That may possibly have been a suggestion where you don't specify a gathering project, you just start digging and stop when you like or have enough. This continous update idea would actually facilitate the gathering suggestion.

I agree that this would feel good but it's hardly realistic, in fact how cantr hands you an unexact amount of resources in exchange for time is very realistic i think. I.e. you know you will need 600 g of stone for a project. If you dig for 6 hours you'll have gathered a load of stone of which you have no way of knowing the exact weight, it might be enough or just short. Suppose it were 1000 potatoes you'd have to count them of which any normal person would inevitably lose track... or it'd just take another hour to make sure how many you've got until you know you are a few short!

I'm afraid I don't follow you: what's unrealistic?

[Frits]

What's not to understand? Go outside and dig 600 g of stone. Chances are you will not hit the number, you need to aim above that number to make sure it's enough.

[Solfius]

What's not to understand? Go outside and dig 600 g of stone. Chances are you will not hit the number, you need to aim above that number to make sure it's enough.

......yes? And how is that related to my post?

I wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't have any random variation in project results. I'm all in favour of that.

[Frits]

Dear Hermi. Frankly, in my opinion whole staff actions are directed toward more reality, never against. All changes that happened or is happening are because we want Cantr more real. And I feel Cantrreality is only an excuse to us when something is strange or doesn't work as supposed to

In particular - current projects system simulates RL. So why to not make it more real?

More real sounds good. I like the way tiredness and damage interfere with working. I think though chars at a 100% efficiency (as is common now) should be an exception.
(this should be on suggestionforum i know) What about morale? If a char has a house, some warm clothes, a varied diet and a vehicle to travel to work working morale should be very good. So a newspawn has a poor morale and works i.e. at a 67% rate compared to this. If he's unlucky and is attacked it gets worse.
And what i don't see altho my experience is limited is illness, or worse contageous diseases which affect villages or even whole areas. When a char doesn't have clothes or shelter or enough vitamins they should fall ill very often. Well i could go on but i suppose lots of people will have a realistic idea of how dangerous and uncertain primitive life was. A baby surviving for one year was a reason to celebrate. That was a good sign it might live to be a grownup.

[Frits]

......yes? And how is that related to my post?

I wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't have any random variation in project results. I'm all in favour of that.[/quote]

Well my dear, you wrote this on page 4: "you just start digging and stop when you like or have enough". I'm trying to explain you have no way to tell you have enough. Are you gonna count them, weigh it? What with?

[Sho]

Frits, I don't believe you understand what Solfius is saying. It seems to me that he wants gathering projects to be open-ended - you start gathering, and you continuously have resources added to your inventory. You stop gathering when you have as enough - you (the player) decide that the amount you have is all you need, and you stop gathering.
But wouldn't that be harder to implement with continuous time? Unless you're going to have resources be added to your inventory a gram at a time every few seconds, the only way to make open-ended gathering work is to have set intervals for resources to be added to your inventory.

[Solfius]

Ah right, I see, and Sho explained what I meant by that.

At every update/tick the proper amount of resources (inc. variation) would go into your inventory.

[Frits]

Frits, I don't believe you understand what Solfius is saying. It seems to me that he wants gathering projects to be open-ended - you start gathering, and you continuously have resources added to your inventory. You stop gathering when you have as enough - you (the player) decide that the amount you have is all you need, and you stop gathering.

I think i understand very well what he's saying! And now sho is doing the same as Solfius, you let your primitive char bring some strange modern machine to the job, which calculates how many potatoes and weighs how much stone is gathered... real? i think not. (hence my example, you as a modern human being would not be able to gather exactly 600 g of stone outside, without the aid of some machine!)
So what does a smart primitive char do? He aims a bit higher than the original targetamount to make sure it is reached and of course this takes some extra time.

[Solfius]

I think i understand very well what he's saying! And now sho is doing the same as Solfius, you let your primitive char bring some strange modern machine to the job, which calculates how many potatoes and weighs how much stone is gathered... real? i think not. (hence my example, you as a modern human being would not be able to gather exactly 600 g of stone outside, without the aid of some machine!)
So what does a smart primitive char do? He aims a bit higher than the original targetamount to make sure it is reached and of course this takes some extra time.

Are you suggestion, then, we remove all the accurate weights from Cantr and replace them with some arbitary measurement like "pieces" which doesn't imply an exact measurement?

*is feeling bemused*

[Frits]

Huh? no. I was merely ripping apart your suggestion!
But it's nothing personal... *smiles viciously.. smiles very sweetly*

[Sho]

No offense intended, Frits, but either be clear about what you're supporting/attacking, or shut up. If you're opposed to the entire idea of "grams" as an exact measure, that's not an attack on Solfius's suggestion - it's a suggestion for a major change in Cantr. If you want to attack the fundamental design of Cantr, that's fine by me, but don't sneak it in tangentially as an attack on someone else's suggestion.

And if I've completely misinterpreted you, I apologize, but you clearly didn't do a very good job of explaining yourself.

While I'm at it, I might as well vent on how much little things like "Well my dear" and "And now sho is doing the same as Solfius" can aggravate people. They may have been innocent, but in print, how can we tell that they're not snide attacks on us?

[Phalynx]

Hey lets be gentle here... when you can explain yourself in Dutch Sho... then you can criticise fella.....

[Frits]

Ok sho, i'll hold back. But i was getting a bit irritated explaining the same thing 4 times, i thought i was very clear from the first time on. Postings can be confusing but i've been on lots of homeland and foreign forums and if i want to know someone's meaning, intentions or even an entire trail of thought i may go back to the start and read it again. Sometimes people on forums write too much and don't read good enough, like i think happened in this case, no?
And you misinterpreted me with the grams, how on earth did you get that idea? Would i have phrased it in that way?

Too add to the suggestion we should've been discussing, it would be acceptable if after a couple of hours the char looked at his heap of potatoes and made an estimate, suppose this number shows 1000 when in fact it's between 900 and 1100. And then char can decide from there. But where to show this figure, in inventory would be confusing cause the inventory is all exact numbers.