About Learning Other Languages

[Wilmer Bordonado]

Hello everyone.

First of all, please forgive me if this threat has been posted before. But I've been trying to collect the doubts of a certain number of spanish players -me included- in aim to avoid CBR from this part of Cantr universe.
The matter is about learning foreign languages. Spanish players have to deal mostly with dutch or german players, but in certain cases with french or english ones. The CR seems to be simple on one point: Our characters can't speak any other language than the spanish, if they don't "learn" them in-game. But "simple" seems not to be so "clear", so here I selected some questions for you to enlight us:
(Sorry for numbered them, but I think it's easy to examine each case separately)

1) I'm bilingual player (spa-eng / spa-ger / spa-dut): Can my characters speak both languages that I know?
2) If not, how's the way my character should learn how to speak in my secondary language? Meeting an eng-dut-ger speaker? Finding a note in those languages?
3) Can I use an online translator to understand what other people are saying?
4) Can I use an online translator to interact with other people?
5) If I spent a lot of time in a non-spanish city, with a spanish character, should I have learnt how to communicate in that language?
6) Are character self-made "dictionaries" essential to learn other languages?
7) If I am a new player and I am told "she's our english translator", How could I be sure she has learnt the language in-game and not by on-line translation? Couldn't it be consider as an ilegal adventage?
Finally, which are the rules that follow Cantr Player's Dept to examine possible CBR, regarding to the learnt of foreing languages in-game?

Thanks for your attention.

Wilmer B.

[tiddy ogg]

This is probably the wrong forum for this, but those questions do need answering. The game's blurb suggests you can improve, (if not learn), other languages by playing Cantr. viz the topic on German/Dutch areas.

[west]

One of my (English) characters has run into a Swedish-speaking character, and was able to communicate rudimentarily by pointing/swapping items, then compiling a short wordlist. But he didn't spend enough time with the guy to really understand him. He's also found Esperanto notes and can't make hide nor hair of them

[Doug R.]

This is my opinion only:

Hello everyone.

First of all, please forgive me if this threat has been posted before. But I've been trying to collect the doubts of a certain number of spanish players -me included- in aim to avoid CBR from this part of Cantr universe.
The matter is about learning foreign languages. Spanish players have to deal mostly with dutch or german players, but in certain cases with french or english ones. The CR seems to be simple on one point: Our characters can't speak any other language than the spanish, if they don't "learn" them in-game. But "simple" seems not to be so "clear", so here I selected some questions for you to enlight us:
(Sorry for numbered them, but I think it's easy to examine each case separately)

1) I'm bilingual player (spa-eng / spa-ger / spa-dut): Can my characters speak both languages that I know?
2) If not, how's the way my character should learn how to speak in my secondary language? Meeting an eng-dut-ger speaker? Finding a note in those languages?
3) Can I use an online translator to understand what other people are saying?
4) Can I use an online translator to interact with other people?
5) If I spent a lot of time in a non-spanish city, with a spanish character, should I have learnt how to communicate in that language?
6) Are character self-made "dictionaries" essential to learn other languages?
7) If I am a new player and I am told "she's our english translator", How could I be sure she has learnt the language in-game and not by on-line translation? Couldn't it be consider as an ilegal adventage?
Finally, which are the rules that follow Cantr Player's Dept to examine possible CBR, regarding to the learnt of foreing languages in-game?

Thanks for your attention.

Wilmer B.

1) No, they start out only knowing the language that you spawned them in.

2) Immersion and notes. Many words are similar between languages, and the meaning of others can be deduced from context. Meeting and communicating extensively with a foreign language speaker certainly qualifies.

3) No.

4) No. (Online translators suck anyway, and it would obvious that you are using one.)

5) Yes, assuming there was a lot of talking, it would be reasonable to assume your character picked up language skills.

6) No, but they help.

7) You should not worry about it. If you are new, you would not have any prior evidence to base a judgement on, so your only option is to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Not sure what you are asking on that last question.

[deadboy]

No I know for a fact that the answer to 4 is yes. You are allowed to emote and interact in any language, as only the player sees this, not the characters. You are most definatly allowed to do this.

I think Doug is right on every other part though

[Doug R.]

Oh, deadboy's right, I misunderstood the question. I took interact to mean speak, not emote. However, my point about using online translators stands. Odds are, whatever you're trying to emote won't make any sense. I just had a guy in the Spanish area respond to me using a translator and I can't even follow what he's trying to tell me. I knew it was going to be bad when the first sentence was:

hello I am using a translator to speak in groins,

[Valsum]

LOL Doug.

[Wilmer Bordonado]

Sadly, there are a lot of people in Spanish area using translators (on-line or not) to have their characters communicated to dutch or german partners.
And there are a lot of dutch / german players that do prefer understand that spanish guy or girl in broken words, instead of having a silence forever.
Do they both break the Capital Rule? Surely. Is there some way to prevent this or even punish it? I hesitate.

Wilmer B.

ps. Valsum :

[UloDeTero]

OMG, that's true!

I just checked BabelFish, and 'ingles' (without the accent) is Spanish for 'groins'! What must the Spanish people think of us?

[Wilmer Bordonado]

OMG, that's true!

I just checked BabelFish, and 'ingles' (without the accent) is Spanish for 'groins'! What must the Spanish people think of us?

It seems to be a good translator, everytime "ingles" (without the accent) is the spanish word for "groins", and "inglés" (accentr included) is the spanish word for "english".
Writing correctly will lead to a correct meaning, won't it?

Wilmer B.

[WojD]

Few (Cantr) years ago we accomplish first crosszone contact: Polish - English. Maria (PL) and Kip (EN) start build dictionary - they point at items, exchange raws...

Now in Polish zone we have well known dictionary called - Slownik mowy Kipa - and most of sailors have a copy. This is about 300 words only - but this is really good basis for every contact. So, dictionaries are really helpful.

ty - you
ja - I
my - we
mapa - map
port - port
lokacja - location, place
na - on
z - from
prowadzic, pilotowac - pilot
przychodzic - come
wychodzic - go
dzien dobry - good day for you
...

EDIT: * emoting * in English isn't CRB; you can emote in your main language, every language you learnt in game and in English

[Wilmer Bordonado]

Thanks wojd for the idea. Actually, many of my characters are or were colaborating on dictionaries in different languages, with best or worst results, but I think that's the idea... learning under the respect of the CR.
The trouble -and perhaps the stuff that made me write the original post- is that you find that if you take the things the way it should go, I mean, respecting the CR -making dictionaries without any out-Cantr help, or not using players skills at languages- sometimes you find there are some players that simply communicate using on line translators, and receptors that allow that game rule.
And there's where I find that my work for a dictionary or my strict respect for the CR is unuseful. Because there are others who use the player's skills, or even external resources, on the character's stories. That's a big advantage on game.
On plain words: The time that makes my character being understandable to dutch characters, was used by someone else (using online trans) for building up a carrot harvester, for instance.
And that's no fair.

Wilmer B.

[Umberto Faroni]

On plain words: The time that makes my character being understandable to dutch characters, was used by someone else (using online trans) for building up a carrot harvester, for instance.

Sr Wilmer, casulmente uno de mis personajes que vive en la zona española,en la que supongo usted tambien debe jugar, ha construido esa maquina, y, mi pregunta, a la que agradeceria respondiera, es muy simple, ¿se refiere usted al recolector de zanahorias que se ha construido en R.... por un hombre llamado P. W. y sus amigos, ?,

[Black Canyon]

On plain words: The time that makes my character being understandable to dutch characters, was used by someone else (using online trans) for building up a carrot harvester, for instance.
And that's no fair.

I'm confused. How did use of an online translator assist someone else's charry to build a carrot harvester?

And how was that unfair to you?

[Sho]

As I understand it, while Wilmer's character was doing the whole sign language/learning-by-immersion rigmarole, some other player used online translators to have his character trade, get government permission and hire workers (maybe not all of those, but that's the idea) to build a carrot harvester. Clearly either Wilmer was being more RP-proper than was strictly necessary, or the other player was breaking the Languages Rule. And he would like to know which, since staff have been giving very mixed signals on this sort of thing.