Variation in Government Styles

[David]

We will see how successful our 40 year-old (I don't count pre-civil rights era) Democratic Republic will be in terms of staying power in comparison to Rome. The Roman Republic (albeit not Democratic, not to speak of the Greeks) lasted much longer, even if you tack on the extra centuries. I will admit the social environment we have is very good, but the experiment is far from over . I wonder how to seperate the cultural window-dressing from the real reasons for our success.

Our resources had to have something to do with it. Could the Persian Satrapy system have close to the same success as our system in terms of military might and economic clought grafted onto such a big pile of gold, and more importantly, in combination with two oceans to protect it, and stone age civilizations surrounding it...

It seems one of the other major reasons for American success is savvy Vietnamese-style foriegn policy in the early years. (playing one imperial power off the other, and taking over the holdings of what became the weakling (Spain) (whether officially (PR) or unoffically (almost all of S. America) Interestingly, it was actually later that America and Germany fought over "Imperial Rights" so to speak in S. America before WWI)

I know this is antithema to many textbooks... there has to be a strong dogma to keep national cohesiveness, but that doesn't mean we have to buy into it as individuals. How much was geographic and material; how much was ideology and systemic?

With respect to varying political systems? A Maududian Theo-Democracy would be an interesting counter balance to the godless empires and councils.

[Pirog]

I think the state system as we know it will disappear within our life time.

Much research is pointing on a regression to the old tribal society.
It seems crazy to hear it, but when you think about it is pretty obvious.

The rich isolate themselves in gated communities and want little else to do with the world, the poor feels little in common with the other people in their cities and patriotism (well, here USA differs from Europe) and loyalty towards the state is sinking, as well as the amount of people taking part in elections.

In the meanwhile the companies move their production to countries where they can cut down on wages and doesn't have to pay taxes.
This hollows out the governments, who are allready weakened from all the responsibilities being moved to globally managed organizations.

I'm not saying that we will be living in straw huts in the future, but the globalization is slowly (well, it may be rather quickly) dissolving the nations.

[David]

European nations tend to question the primacy of national soveriegnty more readily than America. Its mostly due to different Historical experiences. National soveriegnty is put on such a high pedestal in America because it is what allowed America to meld into a global power (soveriegnty here means basically, not allowing any foriegn nation to interfere with the Americas too much, Monroe doctrine et cetra... and manifest destiny.) America had no true equals as it moved forward in the Americas so soveriegnty issues basically boiled down to what was wanted by America: not any surrounding powers. Europe is a different story. Sure there were the European powers colonies to contend with, but they had there own fighting amongst themselves, except for England which burned the Capitol... it didn't happen enough times for soveriegnty to be questioned, but only strengthened.

In Europe soveriegnty takes on a different connotation. Obsessing over soveriegnty issues are what fractured Europe over the centuries into a war-torn hell at periodic times... whereas America has only one such instance even similar, and it was a civil war, not a war with other truly seperate cultues and powers. The only time Soveriegnty in its truest sense came up with wars with Spain and Mexico... and America steamed rolled through them, so again soveriegnty was a one sided coin... whereas if the Spainish American war was more equal, ending in a bloody stalemate, and Mexico and Canada were on an equal footing with the U.S. The national schema regarding soveriegnty might be quite different. In Europe, some times soveriegnty is yielded, regardless of how much internecene fighting over unifing the markets recently et cetra... it still goes way beyond anything America would be willing to yield at this stage of the game in terms of soveriegnty... I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing. I'm not passing judgement either way, I'm just describing.

[Meh]

If the length of the current incarnation of the USA is 40 years then it will last another 60 years.

Not really enough data points to draw from but the country seems to head towards reordering itself ever five generations or 100 years.

1760s
1860s
1960s

2060s
Global Warming: 1.3 - 6F (.8 - 3.5C): 60% of IPCC estimate
Fossil Fuels: Depending on who you ask, how much is used, how much more is found ... runs out in the 2040s
Global Population: exceeds 9 billion in the 2050s (1 billion play Cantr)
USA Social Security - estimated fund exhuast in 2040s
Good luck with that sammigurl. My regards to your grandchildren.

[::10votaal::]

This way it sounds like we are never going to make it to the 2040s

But what are the chances that we have faced world war 3 by that time and half of the world population has died?

It's just waiting on a conflict in witch Russia or China turns against the united states and does the unthinkable

[The Hunter]

This way it sounds like we are never going to make it to the 2040s

But what are the chances that we have faced world war 3 by that time and half of the world population has died?

It's just waiting on a conflict in witch Russia or China turns against the united states and does the unthinkable

Ah, doomsday.

It has been predicted so many times now, for thousands of years already.
Every generation has had it's own problems and every time they thought the end was nigh. And every time they coped with it and every time (well, almost) life got a bit better. True. Nowadays we have the means to literally destroy the world, but we'll find ways to prevent it. It stilll amazes me though how close a nuclear war has been avoided in the Cuba crisis. (who said the russians were evil?)
Anyway. We'll find ways to cope with it. I see a big future for nuclear fusion. Opposite to fission, the atoms are not split, but "fused" and the "waste" is not radioactive material but... Water... The energy of the stars. No morew pollution, more effective food production, the end of most of the problems our generation worries so much about. The decision has been made a few day's ago to build the first full sized, fully operational reactor. i still remember hearing the leading scientists claim it would be 50 more years until the process could be started and operational... That was in 1992.

Ofcourse there are some downsides to "free" energy. As dependant our societies were to oil, as vulnerable were others. The great empoverment of oil supplieng countries? The Arab world now lost, russia, Indonesia, Mexico. All poor countries heavily depending on oil incomes. Shifts of powers, etc... New challenges to cope with.

Like Johan Cruyff said: " Elk nadeel hep se foordeel".
in english "there's an advantage to every disadvantage" or vice versa ofcourse.
(Johan Cruyff is a dtch football player famous for his oneliners... mostly cliche's)
Anyway... Politics and governing have not been fully evolved and never will. Who would have thought that common citizens and peasants would decide who rules the country? noit long ago that was unthinkable, as unthinkable as the nobles would have thought that the feudal system would ever be abolished? What king would have ever thought he would loosse his absolute power to the noblemen who were meant to support him instead of stealing his power? What tribesman would have ever thought he would someday not be lead by the chief of his tribe? They would all have thought of it as the end of the world. Somehow it's man's greatest fear, change, and at the same time they relentlessly push for changes and progression. "stilstand is achteruitgang". I do not know the english equivalent but it means: "to stop is to reverse".
I dont care really. I can't stop it and i don't want to. All i do is sit back and watch the show.

"interesting times"

[::10votaal::]

Well I'm sure that when we get to the fusion of atoms, that we're going to see a lot more tjernobills (however I write it, you know what I mean )

We get problems with little country unable to make a good reactor for this proces, causing a lot of accidents. I predict some pretty nasty accidents

And a question to Orion, in what way is the stuff used for this proces usefull to make weapons? I can imagine that when this kind of power is the main source (like oil now) every country will have his own reactors. In what way could organisations like Al-Quida take atvantage of this proces? (just a question )

[Sho]

Fusion is supposed to be safer than fission, so a Chernobyl-type accident would be unlikely. However, I doubt large-scale fusion will be an efficient option for at least a couple of decades. I'm no expert, but from what I've read, we would need to go through several stages before fusion breaks even in terms of energy production, and we haven't reached the first of those stages.

[Camino]

except for England which burned the Capitol... it didn't happen enough times for soveriegnty to be questioned, but only strengthened.

I have no idea what your own about there, there was the Great Fire of London in the 1660s but that was an accident not politicaly motivated. So you must be on about something totally different. Don't forget that the USA is a young nation whereas the European powers are old-hands, thats why the USA hasn't had its share of internal political movements, they've already happend in Europe or elsewhere most likely and then are simply implemented.

On that bit about Russia and China taking advantage of the USA, I'm at a loss as to how you think thats likely. The Chinese have only one option of delivery against the USA and that is with, I believe, the DF-41 which has a range of 12,000KM and the DF-5 with a 13,000KM which are capable of reaching the western USA. Now correct if I'm wrong but they aren't going to be to cause havoc very far with less than a 100 ICBMs at the most and possibly only 150 warheads. Plus the Chinese aren't going to screw up now for nothing, they know that launching a nuclear attack on the USA will earn them nothing at all. Think why are the Chinese so keen to avoid the USA entering N.Korea? They don't want to keep US presence in the area at a minimum.

Now Russia is financially incapable of such a task, they have the missiles in various stages of degredation but most of the personnel for Russian Artillery Command are missing over a years worth of wages. Which obviously does not make happy soldiers, so the theft from Russian military bases is at an all time high because these people are desperate. Their are numerous factual incidents involving the theft of everything from fuel to guidance systems. No incidents of warheads being stolen though, as they aren't so desperate enough as to expose themselves to dangerous levels of radiation, which they are deliberatley told about upon arrival.

Now, governmental development in Cantr has stagnated from my point of view as all upcoming and current governments, which still survive, are set in their ways of suppresion or representation. There are either councils or leaders and frankly I'd rather be under a leader than leaders! Has anybody else noticed in Blojt or the Commonwealth as whole that stagnation is beginning to become apparent? No goals are being set by the Lords or Ladys and this lack of drive is allowing people to think for themselves, not always a bad idea as it can lead to a new era of growth but usually it leads to a bloodbath.

This was a highly disrupted thread from me. Stay on topic you young punks.

[Solfius]

To be honest I have never stayed around Blojt long enough to notice anything like that, but from what I know of Blojt's organisation it seems there are few with any clear control, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was getting pretty stagnant.

Is Blojt one of the longest standing governments around?

Does anyone know how long in comparison to others?

[Camino]

I think the current frm of Blojt's government has been around since the 300s, I'll have to check "The Big Book of History" to be sure but something like that.

[ephiroll]

To be honest I have never stayed around Blojt long enough to notice anything like that, but from what I know of Blojt's organisation it seems there are few with any clear control, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was getting pretty stagnant.

Is Blojt one of the longest standing governments around?

Does anyone know how long in comparison to others?

I don't have a char there, but I do know that Blojt hasn't been in it's current "configuration" as Lad, Siom, or Quillanoi all of which have been pretty stable since the early 200's. I still remember laughing by ass off at the stories Cliff told me about the char he had in Blojt that was killing everyone and singing the "rape and pillage" song.

[rklenseth]

Al-Abhol, the terror of Blojt, was played by Cliff! I never knew that.

Anyways, the Commonwealth is pretty much the same since Wu Tang built it after defeating Al-Abhol in the early 300's. The only difference right now is that Longinazy wants out, claiming that Lord Tang threatened them into the Commonwealth and all of these bandits taking places over. Lord Stewart has pretty much been building an outpost in the other Longinazy Forest and has also has had his people building a massive building complex in Blojt that will be larger than Wu Tang's Fortress or Perkins Lirens Homestead. Lord Stewart has also been building an army for the Commonwealth since all of the outbreaks of bandits. Since Lord Tang has died, there hasn't been all that much building up of the roads or expanding the Commonwealth. Lord Stewart wishes to continue these things but some Lords and Ladies don't and some even want to disband the Commonwealth and go towards a more feudal like system rather than a united country.

[ephiroll]

Al-Abhol, the terror of Blojt, was played by Cliff! I never knew that.

lol...he sure was, I never had a char in Blojt, but Cliff's stories were a damn good laugh. There wouldn't happen to be any records of all that around would there?

[rklenseth]

There are. Blojt was able to keep an extensive library on its history. My character, Graiwe Johnsmith, was spawned in Blojt during the time Al-Abhol and left after a while because non one would do anything about Al-Abhol even though Wu Tang was doing something privately at the time beyond everyone's knowledge that would lead to the downfall of Al-Abhol. Graiwe went to Northern Blit Forest where he met Tony Stewart and the his people and joined them. Ever since, Graiwe and Tony are inseperable. They are always together.