RP Hall of Shame

[The Sociologist]

I just want to add--maybe because my nose is still out of joint--that just maybe the player cited in the first post of the thread, assuming he survives in the game, will tend to create trader characters who know the value of "forty percent" and set out to try and make a profit. So maybe they won't be the Shakespeare's of roleplay. Is that such a bad thing? Is there not room for everyone? How many of our local "purists" have ever hauled out a pocket calculator when playing the game?

"If you can dig 800 grams carrots in a day and 750 grams hematite in a day, then how many carrots should be traded for 8000 grams of hematite? Would your answer differ if carrots were a local product and you had carried 8000 grams of hematite from two towns away, taking 8 days to do so?"

Can trading in the game ever make a profit?

Why are all the threads about roleplay and none ever about the state of trade, barter, currency and the like?

[Doug R.]

I have a character that makes a heafty profit. The secret is in providing manufactured goods. Americans make up a good chunk of the English speaking populace, and most Americans don't know how to barter, so they just buy my stuff at markup no questions asked.

Also, Kwor has a decent standing trade arrangement, and I know of another character that has a really good wood for food arrangement with the neighboring forest.

A determined and savvy trader can make a killing, there just aren't a lot of us out there.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Why are all the threads about roleplay and none ever about the state of trade, barter, currency and the like?

Because probably many of the forum users that post a lot don't find it as interesting?

To some, trade and the like are more interesting, to others, rp and imagination are more interesting. But Cantr wouldn't work without both.

[Mafia Salad]

Why are all the threads about roleplay and none ever about the state of trade, barter, currency and the like?

The current mood of the forum is directed by people who treat those things as parts of role playing, so the role playing would dictate those things and not the other way around. I don’t think that’s a good thing itself, there should be interaction, goals changing personality, personality changing goals, both influenced by other characters. But I feel like advocating the RP side of things right now, so I will. And I’ll try to do it in a helpful manner incase that player or someone else looking for advise is reading this.

The first problem that I see with that character is how mechanical it all was. It didn't seem like a person discovering who they are, it seemed like a player finding out about their character and referring all the information to the other players. Unnaturally technical IMO.

The second problem that I saw was that the character didn’t use any questions other than “Can anyone tell me the name of this location?" Which also sounded very technical. So he didn’t invite anyone who he was giving this information to into deeper conversation with him about it. This isn’t a big RP problem though because people do that in real life, It just makes the beginning of the characters life more uncomfortable and awkward for himself and the rest of the town.

The third problem that I saw was his last statement: “Hey if anyone has a shovel, and is willing to rent it to me, I will give 40 percent of the onions I farm to them. I am an expert at farming it seems, so giving me one would be quite fast and efficient.” That’s good commerce regarding his time, something that is good to see in Cantr and worthy of praise. But again it seems like a player trying to position his character. Not something the character thought up.

It would have come across a lot better if he would have waited until the next day, and asking specific people who look important or successful if they think that would be a good idea would make the character seem more natural and less robotic. Imitating and asking advise from another character you want yours to be like is one of the best possible things you can do in the game. It builds a personal connection, trust, respect from that other character, and an ego boost from them to have a protégé. Plus you can learn things you never would have though of yourself & the possability of material gain.

That was my four cents. I might have to argue for the strategic play side of things in my next post. It's intresting, but I have been finding that RP heavy characters are one of the greatest tools for my more strategic characters to use. Who would have though these thing can work side by side?

[Joshuamonkey]

Not everyone who joins Cantr is a good rper (surprise, surprise ) Most new players don't realize how much of a role-playing game Cantr is supposed to be, and just try to gain as much as they can and take over the world. Though as I've said before you have to have characters that work a lot, and be an author. thuogh yes, they could easily switch a few words for better role playing, but what do you suggest is done about it?

Cantr really brings in the really smart people. These forums take a lot of effort and time to read. Shouldn't they know all the information available to them IC? I know with me talking this much I'm going to be brought down piece by piece, but isn't that what these forums are for? So rant on furthur.

Mafia Salad, I agree with your post a lot. Especially that last sentence. Add good role playing to strategy and activeness and hard work and cooperation, and you get a game that takes a lot of work. But nothing should be very easy. Cantr is supposed to be semi-similar to real life.(which also comes with the lucky bonuses. There's entreprenuership, but also switch the lottery with "oh look! He's dead! I just hit the jackpot!")

[wichita]

I tried to trade to employ supply and demand. It doesn't work most of the time. A particularly memorable conversation went as follows:

My character: "Ah, you have wood to trade? I will buy it from you at a rate of 200 grams per day of work."

Other trader: "But I can gather it at a rate of 300 grams per day."

My character: "Yes, but wood is rare here. We have been trying to get a trade route established to bring it here for a long time, but nobody seems to keep coming. I was trying to offer you a better deal to give you some incentive to come back. *winks*"

Other trader: "Ok, so I will sell you wood. 300 grams per day."

My character: "Fine, we will play it your way."

I love trading. I think it is great. I don't know why people can't figure it out. In this particular instance, it wasn't the fact that trade was offered, it was that it was so mechanical. It just reeked of a player who has worked out a strategy and is just playing it out, going through the motions. It is subtle I know, and I realize I am a roleplaying snob.


It is easy to take the whole econmoy/society simulator versus roleplaying game to either extreme. What is harder to do and what I appreciate so much when I see it are the people that can manage to do BOTH simultaneously. Truly quality roleplaying in Cantr involves both. Good characters have personality AND purpose. They are individual people. They have personal motivations. They have personal goals. A balance of external and internal motivations are key to creating a unique and orginal culture.

I just get aggravated when I see characters that resemble how I play Civilization -- very formulaic and dry.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

It is easy to take the whole econmoy/society simulator versus roleplaying game to either extreme. What is harder to do and what I appreciate so much when I see it are the people that can manage to do BOTH simultaneously. Truly quality roleplaying in Cantr involves both. Good characters have personality AND purpose. They are individual people. They have personal motivations. They have personal goals. A balance of external and internal motivations are key to creating a unique and orginal culture.

Exactly!

[The Sociologist]

It would have come across a lot better if he would have waited until the next day, and asking specific people who look important or successful if they think that would be a good idea would make the character seem more natural and less robotic.

There are quite a lot of assumptions involved there. Throughout 99% of human history and cultures a young man or woman was born into an extended family, clan or tribe. So the hierarchy is determined from even before they are fully aware of their surroundings. And yet that hierarchy provided support too. It was a reciprocal thing.

Now such does not exist in Cantr and arguing that a newspawned Cantr charrie should opt for "specific people who look important or successful" is probably not going to provide an alternative that works. It may even represent a rather distinctive and regrettable cultural bias. I must confess that I don't know the full answer to this, but I thought I'd just point it out.

Anyhow, I'm still not sure why we should be complaining about this player's charries when every young man or woman in their twenties IRL is running around flashing a CV full of SATS scores and other "statistics". The charrie in question was merely waving his CV, Cantr-style.

[El_Skwidd]

I agree with Sociologist, although somewhat hypocritically. My characters focus a good bit more on the roleplaying, with a writer, an aimless sailor, a lazy commander, and a few others.

But I must say that I've had the same kind of problem that was mentioned above with my strategy-oriented chars. For example, I've been running a promising business in the ______ region, or at least trying to. I've promised all sorts of payment and managed to attract one legitimate employee. One. Over a span of almost 14 Cantr years, one employee. And only one trading partner. It seems like the RPers are way outnumbering the strategy characters, which makes it hard to play strategically.

I'm a big fan of the children implementation, and Sociologist mentioned heirarchies earlier. I think that the influence of families and the social hierarchies they foster will add a lot of depth to the game if it can be implemented smoothly. I don't know if it'll help the RP/strategy balance, but it'll make me happy.

Someone else mentioned that the best characters have personality and purpose, and they're absolutely right. I think that's what we should all strive for.

[wichita]

Successful clans seem to attract more members. I really think that the clan/family thing has been shown to be an effective societal structure in Cantr. They even rise to power, unite regions, and in many cases fall from power just like real life families. The only big difference is that in Cantrian cultures, family status isn't based on....how did Ed O'Neil put it in Dutch? Oh yes. Family status isn't based on "who's crotch the doctor pulled you out of."

So the family/clan thing, as much as people complain about it being an OOC concept forced in game and yada yada yada, is actually a very IC thing and often does exactly what I am personally hoping we can nuture as a player base. It is an in game solution (formation of a societal structure) to an in game need (the need for cooperation to bring about efficient technological and political development), and when it forms balanced with the proper amount of quality roleplaying (the Barons or Tribe Blackrock) it becomes something truly special and unmatched by just about any other game we have found.

Balance the mechanics and strategy with personality and emotional appeal. Make something new, colorful, and functional.

[Bowser]

One female character was tossed into jail in Lad. She was not happy and asked why she was arrested.

She was told she would be in jail for 20 days. About a day later she told a town guard.

"OOC: If you don't let me out, I'm just going to let this character die"

[deadboy]

Just out of curiousity did you ever tell her why she was put in jail? I know my character never was a few years back when he was

You play Kugg Rock (I think that was his name... the prison warden anyway) yeah?

[Michabean]

Mafia Salad said:

Cantr is not a chat-room, people don’t need to be online to read what you type, and conversations don’t need to take place live to be valuable.

I agree with this to some extent but I find that having people respond to you in the moment makes for fun role play. None of my characters ask if anyone is awake unless they need help with something but I still enjoy when others are online at the same time I am.

[El_Skwidd]

"OOC: If you don't let me out, I'm just going to let this character die"

This is my least favorite part of Cantr. I've done some ridiculous things with characters to stay alive, especially recently, and it makes me angry when players just abandon characters that are in prison for a year. I understand that it's just a game and that nobody can force you into playing a character you're not enjoying, but I think it takes away from the game immensely when this stuff happens.

[Joshuamonkey]

If characters are starting at age 20, they should be able to know a lot. Though that starts to go back to the starting as a child topic. Though yes, roleplaying is very important.