Tear (destroy) notes

[Sicofonte]

I have yet to see a really good reason as to why it's more important that a note is destroyed, than is just in an envelope?

If you have an overflowing note page in town or in your inventory, use an envelope.

For (Cantr) decades I've kept one of the busiest towns tidy, with rarely more than five notes on the ground at one time.
It takes almost no time at all. Destroying notes would take longer, so I'd still just put them in envelopes, which is instantaneous.

To destroy the notes is not more important that to have they in envelopes. I think the two ways are SAME important. If one exists, ¿why not the other?.

And there are plenty of reasons for the notes being destroyable:
- It is logical.
- It is realistic.
- It is useful and fair for a lot of people (maybe not for Jos, or hallucinatingfarmer, or so on, but yes, LOT of people).
- It is good for the server.


Tu put a note on a envelop is NOT instantaneous.
Each time a char dies, my town gets covered of useless notes. I like to have it tidy, thus I must collect all the notes (one by one), and then put on an envelop (one by one). It is really anoying for me.
A not could be inifinite times dropped and taken, but you can only destroy it once.

There could be a great and fast way to destroy notes: destroying envelopes.

The people fearing to lost their notes... if you have it on your pocket, you should lost your life first, and then you won't mind about the destiny of your notes.


The other day one guy copied lots of texts from the Stolen Notes (i would sworm it is a CR break), put it on a non editable note, make several copies of it, and spread it over all the people on the town. I hate to have fifteen equal notes, all being CR breaks, on a trash envelop. I would want to destroy they!


The history is erasable. Thus is on the real world, and thus should be on Cantr. Moreover, lots of notes are fakes, lies... right now we can't erase the history... nor the fantasy!

At least, if the notes can't be teared apart, they should require some time to be made. It is quite unrealistic that someone could make five copie of the Hobbes Encyclopedia while he is digging for hematite. And without a pencil!


And... the notes should require paper or papyrus to be made

[formerly known as hf]

The argument that destroying notes is need for ease falls thorugh the floor.

Currently, yes, it's a bore keeping a town tidy. I know, I've been doing since the first couple of days I started playing. But, if it was easy to destroy notes. Well, you can imagine what would happen. If someone just decided to destroy all the notes on the ground...

It would cause more problems in terms of organising a town's notes, rather than solving any.

All the problems that have been listed throughout this thread would be much more easily solved with the 'checkbox' method that has been suggested before (http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5588).

[Sicofonte]

The multiple note selection is great, I want it too.
But there is one problem still... I want to be able of destroying my notes! it is quite surrealistic that myself could desapear but not the things I wrote!

And the example you expose: one person takes all the notes and destroy it. Ok, it would be a bad thing if some important and NOT COPIED notes were destroyed by a fool. But I think it is as bad as that this guy steals all the notes and leaves in a vehicule before anyone could catch him.
And it is possible, isn't it?

Then, why not allowing the notes being destroyed?

I swear all my char will have a copy of any important note on their pockets (if someone tears apart the notes on the ground, he will receipt a blow and the notes will be restored). If yours not, it is not my problem, don't you think?

[Sho]

It is quite surrealistic that myself could desapear but not the things I wrote!

See: Hammurabi, Plato, Isaac Newton, every literate person who has died in the last century or so. The intent of indestructible notes is precisely that a permanent record of Cantrian events and thought should outlive any one character or government.

[Sicofonte]

Sho, I explained badly. If an iron shield rots, the notes should.
About historic examples: the Library of Alexandria. You know, it burnt.

Moreover, in the RW, we only now a little part of the history. And not all is true!. To expect recording all the history in a virtual way isn't realistic anyway. Cantr System could record all the notes and their changes OOC, but IC... pfffff.

Today three other corpses left the square covered of repeated notes. I put the most on garbage, and blanked the sillier (now I have 20 black notes and over 200 notes on the garbage, despite the 50 on the "history" envelop).

Could anyone imagine a library holding all the orders, memorandums, laws, diaries, letters, crosswords... made along the time?

¬¬

[Sho]

I agree that realism does not support indestructible notes. Nobody says that. But while we're on that tangent, I would cite the Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org/) as an example of a library holding a huge amount of pointless junk data.

The problem I have with note destruction/decay is that nobody has ever given a compelling reason for it:
It won't do anything for clutter, since it would take just as many clicks (probably more, to discourage newspawn crime) as stuffing notes in a trash envelope.
It won't create anything new in terms of societal effects - the proponents of note destruction actually make a point of saying that note destruction will have no large-scale effects.
I haven't heard that notes are a significant load on the server storage space.
Blind obedience to "realism" would necessitate the complete scrapping of the notes system, with its free paper, free ink and instant perfect copies.

[Kleimar]

One should note that the information we have about the past, is very limited. But we only have the information at all because certain scolars and monks went through a lot of trouble to spread all this information around and to store it in many different places. Keeping an history was by no means an easy task in the real word and it posed a challenge for societies. Why should we remove that challenge for the game?

[Doug R.]

Ok, I've had exactly one note out of all my characters that I wanted to destroy:

My charrie was second in command of the Watch. A member of questionable integrity comes up to him and whispers that they should imprison and kill a travelling merchant for his goods. As this man had already previously suggested overthrowing the commander, my charrie had enough, rebuked him, and tossed him from the Watch, all done in whispers as to not cause a scene in the town. The man immediately does the old switcharoo, publicly announcing that he would "never engage in such unjust criminal activity" and that I was a horrible person, and that he couldn't fathom being under my command, so was quitting.

To anyone that didn't know my Charrie well, it would have been a very convincing act. So, he then leaves town, under the premise of finding a "superior officer" to report me to (never mind my superior officer was in town), taking an iron shield that I expressly ordered him to return. Make a long story short, he slandered my name to everyone that he saw on the road, and when finally killed, dropped an uneditable note convincingly describing my "evilness and duplicity."

Needless to say, I want to burn/tear/destroy that note, but I can't. The only thing I can do within the normal parameters of the game is to bury it inside like 100 evelopes inside envelopes and hope that, long after my death, no one goes through those evelopes and discovers what a horrible person this criminal claimed I was, cause I'd be long dead and couldn't defend myself.

Reputations are too hard to build and too easy to destroy, hence, why I want this note destroyed.

[Sicofonte]

Toma ya! (take that).

Although Doug's one is a very good one, I have anothers reasons:

- Cantr ensures on its description (well... approximately) that it is a civilization simuler, that anything could be done on its world, since it codes only that food is required, and death is irreversible. And you can roleplay, build, exert violence...
You can kill and bury the people, you can see your tools rotting... but notes and buildings are ethernal.

I like the destruction! Destruction is part of any civilization!

[Leo Luncid]

Well, just backup all the important notes. That way you won't even have to run after note thieves.

Guys, let's think about this for just a split second.

I will make my point simple.

If you fear losing an important note,

Why is it uncopied, on the ground?

Oh, I see what you mean.

[wejdas]

History is meant to be studied and learnt from. Does any one of you really... I mean relly really believe that anyone will ever read these crap notes stored in libraries for studying, learning purposes or some other reasons? The percentage of short-term information stored in these notes highly overwhelms the amount of 'valuable' stuff. The destruction of notes is a must in this game. Storing most of them for 'historical' purposes is plain ridiculous. You can store valuable material in library, but no library in the world has ever stored tons of craps 'for historical purposes' and I don't see a good reason to do so in Cantr.

[Leo Luncid]

Maybe there are people who are willing to actually save crappy notes to show others to not make such notes.

[Crosshair]

Ok, I've had exactly one note out of all my characters that I wanted to destroy:

Y'allright, Dunc?

And on the point of notes writing the history of Cantr, History is written by the winners. it only makes sense that if one town seeks to destroy the ideals of another, they would wish to destroy its records too.

[notsure]

Plus, it just feels REALLY good to rip up an offensive note and throw it in someone's face.

notsure

[alshepro]

How about when creating/editing a note, there were an option (Checkbox) if the paper were tearable. If you checked it were tearable, you could rip up the note later to remove it from the game and such. If it were unchecked, it would be like the notes now.

Or even, have a lamination machine of some sorts. Notes are all tearable, except when laminated, then become non-tearable for all those legal documents, laws, and such.

the second of the two ideas, about the lamination machine, sounds more realistic to me