What town government do you hate the most?

[TatteredShoeLace]

Govenments? Hah, there's only anarchy... I hate the ones that are started by idealistic newspawns who have absolutely no resources or leading skills but feel like they have to make a set of laws since there wasn't one when they spawned.

*Cough* Tom of Blojt Forest east *Cough*

[Marian]

Govenments? Hah, there's only anarchy... I hate the ones that are started by idealistic newspawns who have absolutely no resources or leading skills but feel like they have to make a set of laws since there wasn't one when they spawned.

Hehe, I came across one of those one time! The "leader" was also the only citizen, and my char kicked her out when for trying to enforce a bunch of ridiculous laws and just generally be insulting.

Important lesson: If you're all alone with bone tools in the middle of nowhere, be really, really nice to the steel-carryign stranger.

[The Sociologist]

but I really enjoy the freeform "everyone be nice" the most.

*shivers*

ROTFLMAO

In a way, Jos and I do see the same issues quite a bit of the time.

The MacGregor vision was brilliant:- use xenophobia and the inevitable backlash to enforce a strong internal unity. It is a dangerous approach but clearly had some payoffs within Cantr, especially since it included a real effort to develop a strong and identifiable culture.

As for Mary Williams, one of my characters would cheer the news of her death and another now admires and respects her very much. Very different responses since she is a truly multifaceted character. Most interesting.

I'm afraid that rather too many Cantr towns mistake anarchy for some notion of "Freedom" or "Democracy". It ain't like that in real life and so inserting it into the game tends to distort things.

EDIT: Oh yes, just wanted to repeat this quote from Nitefire on clans.

Seriously though, it replicates the history of society much better than these other governing organizations. People survived first by banding together, not sparing everyone the same liberties and rights. These ideals only really became clear during the Enlightenment, and even then, still many people lived on the "outside" rim of society.

I think it's silly to start from the modern day and go back in terms of society simulating, or to even pick it up from today, considering the resource implementations being too various.

I agree.

[Phalynx]

Seatown Forest, being the death of one of my characters and long detention od another for no reason... but what I hate most about it is the other characters there that now how evil the leader is but go along with it because it benefits them - truly a replication of the nasty parts of history.

I have more respect for the MG clan than the rangers... there is something a little dishonest about the rangers who on face value are independent law enforcement and protecting the safety of others but actually could be seen as a potential uber government, failing to be such only because of the ineptitude of individual rangers or their personal ties and self interest..

Ditto in regard to the administrations I have come across that have constitutions and regulations which serve nobody... and there are a few!

[Maelstrom]

Seatown Forest, being the death of one of my characters and long detention od another for no reason... but what I hate most about it is the other characters there that now how evil the leader is but go along with it because it benefits them - truly a replication of the nasty parts of history.

...

Too many characters have a decided lack of experience, knowledge, what have you, of what it means to function within a society, or even a company. Any sort of organization. There's this ridiculous "I'm owed freedom, I can do what I want" mentality. Something ordered, structured, with rules, regulations, and not some willy-nilly anarchic lack of responsibility that most teens (American at least) live in these days, is immediately portrayed as "evil" or "wrong". Yikes.

Please, correlate real practices (not imagined) within Seatown Forest with some of the uglier regimes in history. Seatown Forest doesn't even sniff them. Doesn't even touch what goes on in many purportedly free and democratic nations today.

Post a log (edited as you see fit to protect identities) for the characters that have supposedly been jailed / killed there for no reason and I'm sure anyone who's spent any length of time in Seatown Forest or has familiarity with its laws will quickly explain to you why what happened in fact, did.

-Mael, wasting typing

[Phalynx]

(edited for names and brevity)

(trade completed reluctantly and hasty retreat made, DHN beinf none to pleased with poor bargaining skills)

1388-6: Trader says to you: "750, final offer, and if you do not accept you will find your entrails make a pretty necklace! ."
1388-6: You say to Trader: "2000 would seem a fairer price and that only because I wish to be away...?"
1388-6: Trader says to you: "I'll offer you 500 grams of wood for
all of it."
1388-4: You say to Trader: "sorry thats smoked trout not baked trout"
1388-4: You say to Trader: "1100g carrots,1000 grams of salted meat,
1000 grams of smoked meat, 50g of baked trout, as you can appreciate
this is many years of food for more than one man"
1388-3: Trader says to you: "How much food do you have, and how much
wood are you looking for, Alfonso?"
1388-2: You say: "I have a small amount of carrots, smoked meat,
salred meat, even a litle baked trout"
1388-2: You say: "I'm not sure why Mary took offense but I wish her
well."
1388-2: You say: "Well ladies and gentlemen, If anyone would like to
swap food for wood I'd be grateful otherwise I will be off shortly..."
(lots of people dragged inside for a meeting)
1388-1: Mary Williams says: "Alfonso...**** is here....see for
yourself"
1388-1: You are being dragged by Mary Williams, **** to Seatown
Forest where you see 26 people, from DMC Work House.
(3 days in jail later)

1385-4: Mary Williams says: "You can sit in a jail until **** comes
and gets you as well"
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "You haven't seen my hostility yet,...and
we do not need food at the present. "
1385-3: You say: "My town said you would have need for food and we
have need for wood, I am new to these parts, being not much more than a newspawn and don't understand your hostility.."
1385-3: You say: "Yes I heard bad things... And I do not see ****
though he said he would meet me here, what do these things have to do
with you? I don't understand"
1385-3: You say: "When I camw to DHN I was warned to be careful and I have done or said nothing wrong, why would you react like this?"
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "What you say in private and what you say
outloud are two different things. Did you not say that you have heard
bad things of this place and want to leave quickly especially since
**** has disappeared?"
1385-3: You say: "My lady, I do not know you and said no such thing,
I was merely concerned for a friend, I made no accusations...."
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "Get out!"
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "So in essence you accuse me of making
**** disappear and then you still want to trade with me. "
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "I shouldn't take offense when you say
you have bad things and you want out of here quickly as your friend has
disappeared?"
1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "Why do you take offense so...I am
merely looking for trade.."
1385-3: You see Mary Williams point at Seatown Road to Djorf Hills
(north).
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "Alfonso...if you have heard such bad
things then please take your leave now. I also consider **** a friend
and wouldn't touch a hair on the man's head. You won't get a lick of wood
here ever. "
1385-3: You say: "Nice Boots Mary *smiles*"
1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "Are you sure you won't trade food
for wood I will accept a very low price, I have heard unfavourable things
about this place, I want to be away as soon as possible, esp as my
friend **** has disappeared."
1385-3: Mary Williams says to you: "Mary Williams"
1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "May I ask your name?"
1385-3: Mary Williams says to you: "*** was in the meeting at DHN
but he isn't here. We are not trading for food at this time but you may
work for it.... You will work on repairs and if I feel like it you may get some wood in return! "
1385-2: You say: "I expected to find my friend and colleague ****
here, has he passed through this place or is there any news?"
1385-2: You say: "I am here to collect wood for my town, preferably
by trade - I carry a fair amount of food if anyone can assist me in this
matter please speak with me"
1385-2: You say: "Hello one and all I am Alfonso League from Djorf
Hills South"

[Maelstrom]

(edited for names and brevity)
[SNIP]

1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "Why do you take offense so...I am
merely looking for trade.."
1385-3: You see Mary Williams point at Seatown Road to Djorf Hills
(north).
1385-3: Mary Williams says: "Alfonso...if you have heard such bad
things then please take your leave now. I also consider **** a friend
and wouldn't touch a hair on the man's head. You won't get a lick of wood
here ever. "
1385-3: You say: "Nice Boots Mary *smiles*"
1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "Are you sure you won't trade food
for wood I will accept a very low price, I have heard unfavourable things
about this place, I want to be away as soon as possible, esp as my
friend **** has disappeared."
1385-3: Mary Williams says to you: "Mary Williams"
1385-3: You say to Mary Williams: "May I ask your name?"
1385-3: Mary Williams says to you: "*** was in the meeting at DHN
but he isn't here. We are not trading for food at this time but you may
work for it.... You will work on repairs and if I feel like it you may get some wood in return! "
1385-2: You say: "I expected to find my friend and colleague ****
here, has he passed through this place or is there any news?"
1385-2: You say: "I am here to collect wood for my town, preferably
by trade - I carry a fair amount of food if anyone can assist me in this
matter please speak with me"
1385-2: You say: "Hello one and all I am Alfonso League from Djorf
Hills South"

So you're confused about why, when you walk into town and tell the leader that the town is not a nice place (or so you've heard), and that you assume the town is involved in the disapperance of a friend, that you aren't given a warm reception and allowed to do as you please?

Imagine walking up to a king, in any age, and doing that. It's ridiculous to think that the character would even be alive. Cantrian governments aren't (by and large) democracies with procedure and law, they're a bunch of little fiefdoms, and this one has an explicit law about manners.

Am I way off on this? Anyone?

-Mael the Meriless

FYI IANMW

[Sho]

Agree with Maelstrom. Prickly does not mean evil.

[15454]

My favorite are the ones rules by one person who rules everyone, and what she/he says goes.

[N-Aldwitch]

Yes, like some... urh... I'll keep my mouth closed on this matter.

But they're truly the best. Councils and all are stupid and get no where, it's basically a police force ensuring order.

You need a single leader, sure, keep councils, but most cities should have that... Single leaders can organise things fast, effectively and without consultation of other councilors.

[west]

Govenments? Hah, there's only anarchy... I hate the ones that are started by idealistic newspawns who have absolutely no resources or leading skills but feel like they have to make a set of laws since there wasn't one when they spawned.

Hehe, I came across one of those one time! The "leader" was also the only citizen, and my char kicked her out when for trying to enforce a bunch of ridiculous laws and just generally be insulting.

Important lesson: If you're all alone with bone tools in the middle of nowhere, be really, really nice to the steel-carryign stranger.

Ace Grant's Karnon Empire was started that way.

[avi messika]

You need a single leader, sure, keep councils, but most cities should have that... Single leaders can organise things fast, effectively and without consultation of other councilors.

But this will create more and more totalitarian regimes...which could be good or bad depending on what side the power struggle you are on...

But this came up in Karnon Forest a few days ago...someone trying to instate a dictatorship.... Not that I necessarily think that would have been bad either...

[Phalynx]

I have had another character killed for breaking the manners law in Seatown Forest , that's the law, of course the intepretaion of the law is subject to wild mood swings... That wasn't the issue though...

Because MW is a vicious bullying psychopathic dictator, her pathetic minions feel free to extort, threaten etc. Saying there is no comparison between MW and Stalin or Hitler is purely a matter of resources, if piano wire, gas chambers and electrodes were available in cantr I am sure they would be used.

Anway the question was asked, "What town government do you hate the most?" I don't like totalitarian dictatorship with arbitary subjective rules!

[SekoETC]

Alright, go Mary! Hey psst, Phalynx, you missed editing out the friend's name in one point.

[Sicofonte]

One of my char met a goverment he hates (me too). I can't explain what kind of goverment is, since my char was jailed till starvation just when he arrived to the town, before I could see the notes or talk to anyone.
I can say my char wasn't any menace to the town (he wore a bone knife and nothing else), and I suppose that the brokeen law was "state your name and the charge you have to trade".
Well... thinking a bit, I suppose that kind of goverment is Mob Gang. They jail anyone not equipped with a crowbar and wait, with the hope of stealing all his possessions. It looks efficient...