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Junesun
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Postby Junesun » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:33 pm

Ulo, the standard greeting is "Saluton" of course, but I have seen people say "Salutado" before... probably the same people who'd say "Greetings" instead of "Hello" in English.

Floris wrote:Saluton! Mi estas Floris kaj mi estas studento en economio. Mi loghas en Belgujo. Mi vizitas Irlando tri. Mi shati Irlando.
(not sure about past tenses...I tried to explain that I have visited Ireland three times in my life, for now I am however not in Ireland)

Floris, I didn't introduce the past tense yet. What you wanted to say should be: "Mi vizitis Irlandon trifoje", but you couldn't know that. You could have known that "shati" needs to adopt the present tense ending -as however ;-)
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Postby swymir » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:07 pm

I'm not sure why I wrote Salutado, it must be a little spanish getting in the way. Not that Salutado is even a word in spanish. :?
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Junesun
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Postby Junesun » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Lesson 2: Describing

This lesson is about describing. No matter what you're going to describe (people, personalities, objects, the weather,...), you're going to need adjectives. Adjectives are words like good, nice, easy, beautiful, tall, strong or courageous.

Here's a bit of small talk between two Esperanto speakers on the internet:
"Roberto: Saluton! Mi estas Roberto. Kiu vi estas?
Maria: Saluton! Mi estas Maria.
Roberto: Kie vi loghas, Maria?
Maria: Mi loghas en Kanadio, kaj vi?
Roberto: Mi loghas en Brazilo.
Maria: Ho, Brazilo! Kiel estas la vetero en Brazilo hodiauh?
Roberto: La vetero estas belega: ne pluvas, estas varma kaj la suno brilas. Kaj kiel estas la vetero che vi, en Kanadio?
Maria: Chi tie la vetero ne estas belega. Ghi estas malvarmega. Neghas kaj blovas forta vento."

Used words:
Kanadio = Canada [obvious]
Brazilo = Brazil [obvious]
Ho! = Oh! (exclamation)
kiel = (in questions:) how
la = the [like in French, Italian and Spanish. However, Esperanto only has the article "la"; there is no equivalent of "le / il / el" because words don't have a gender.]
vetero = weather [German "Wetter"]
hodiauh = today [Latin "hodie"]
bela = nice, beautiful [Italian "bella", French "belle"]
ne = not [Latin "ne", German "Nee"]
pluvi = to rain [Latin "pluvia", Italian "piove", French "pleuvoir"]
varma = warm [English/German "warm"]
suno = sun [obvious]
brili = to shine [think of "brilliant"]
neghi = to snow [French "neiger"]
blovi = to blow [obvious]
forta = strong [think of "fort" or "forté"; French "fort"; Italian "forte"]
vento = wind [Italian "vento", Latin "ventus"]

As you can probably guess from the list, all adjectives end in -a in Esperanto. Easy, isn't it? With verbs ending in -i (or -as for present tense) and nouns ending in -o, there is no confusion.
Additionally, this clear distinction makes it very easy to convert nouns to adjectives, verbs to nouns, adjectives to nouns etc. . Here are some examples:
neghi (to snow) - negho (snow) - negha (snowy)
pluvi (to rain) - pluvo (rain) - pluva (rainy)
varma (warm) - varmo (warmth)
suno (sun) - suna (sunny)
Brazilo (Brazil) - brazila (Brazillian)
amiko (friend) - amika (friendly)

You can even convert personal pronouns to adjectives (called possessive pronouns in grammar language) this way:
mi (I) - mia (my)
vi (you) - via (your)
li (he) - lia (his) / shi (she) - shia (her) / ghi (it) - ghia (its)
ni (we) - nia (our)
ili (they) - ilia (their)

Because of these possibilities of converting words without hassle, you can easily learn related words. Another nice feature in Esperanto that helps you to expand your vocabulary considerably are the prefixes (syllables that you can put before a word) and suffixes (syllables that you can put behind a word, or rather between the word and the final -a / -o / -i /... in Esperanto).
In the last lesson I already introduced two suffixes: -ist- and -in-. In this lesson, I will introduce the powerful prefix mal- and the suffixes -eg- and -et-.

The prefix mal- transforms a word into its opposite. Examples:
varma (warm) - malvarma (cold)... and hence also malvarmo (the cold)
bela (beautiful) - malbela (ugly)
forta (strong) - malforta (weak)
nova (new) - malnova (old)
amiko (friend) - malamiko (foe)... and hence also malamika (hostile)

The suffix -eg- makes the meaning of a word stronger. Examples:
varma (warm) - varmega (hot)
malvarma (cold) - malvarmega (icy)
bela (beautiful) - belega (gorgeous)
nova (new) - novega (brand new) ...

The suffix -et- makes the meaning of a word weaker. Examples:
varma (warm) - varmeta (a bit warm, warmish)
malvarma (cold) - malvarmeta (cool)
bela (beautiful) - beleta (somewhat beautiful, prettyish)
rugha (red) - rugheta (reddish) ...

Knowing these three suffixes, you can create scales for anything, for example: malbelega - malbela - malbeleta - beleta - bela - belega. This allows you express yourself very clearly if need be.
You can also greatly expand your vocabulary with little effort. Take the word "varma" for example: varma (warm), varmo (warmth), varmega (hot), varmego (heat), varmeta (warmish), malvarma (cold), malvarmo (the cold), malvarmega (icy), malvarmego (iciness), malvarmeta (cool), malvarmeto (coolness). That is 11 words at the price of 1!
With some affixes you'll learn in the future, you'll be able to make even more words on the same basis.

One more point of grammar I should mention briefly: if you want to say something is not the case, add "ne"(not) before the verb. This replaces the English words "doesn't", "aren't", "isn't", "won't", "didn't" etc. .
Example: "Mi ludas Cantr"(I play Cantr) - "Mi ne ludas Cantr"(I don't play Cantr)

Now, how can you use what you just learned in Cantr? There's a variety of uses really, but here are some ideas:
- seeing your items going from "novega" to "nova", "uzata"(used), "ofte uzata"(often-used), "malnova" and finally "diserighanta"(crumbling)
- materials of items: e. g. you might have an "osta shildo"(bone shield), "ligna shieldo"(wooden shield) or "fera shildo"(iron shield)
- RPing your character's appearance: e. g. "*alta, blonda viro alvenas*"(a tall, blond man arrives)
- "Restanta tempo"(Remaining time), followed by the number that your sanity may depend on...

Exercise:
Describe the weather where you live. If you'd like to write more, describe the weather in every season or every month or write a dialogue.
If you're at all interested in languages, check out the language-learning forum and my language-related website !
swymir
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Postby swymir » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:17 pm

kiu = who?

La vetero estas malvarma en Jersey nova. Ghi estas neghega kaj la vento blovas fortega.
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Postby Floris » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:37 am

La vetero en Belgujo estas malvarmeta. Neghetas kaj ne suno brilas.


(Is 'Neghetas' correct? In stead of "It snows" I try to express, "It's snowing slightly; it's snowing a bit; there is a bit of snow;"
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Junesun
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Postby Junesun » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:36 am

Floris wrote:La vetero en Belgujo estas malvarmeta. Neghetas kaj ne suno brilas.


(Is 'Neghetas' correct? In stead of "It snows" I try to express, "It's snowing slightly; it's snowing a bit; there is a bit of snow;"

Yes, it's perfect. You understood the concept. :-D Esperanto is very versatile.

I'd say "la suno ne brilas" instead of "ne suno brilas" however. If you place the "ne" in front of a word other than the verb, you just negate that word alone. The way you wrote it, it sounds like "not the sun is shining (but the moon or something else is shining)".
Here's a further example, though I didn't want to explain this in depth just yet in the lesson:
Mi ludas Cantr. - I'm playing Cantr.
Mi ne ludas Cantr. - I am not playing Cantr. And I might not be playing anything else right now, I might be studying for example.
Ne mi ludas Cantr. - Not I am playing Cantr. Somebody else is playing Cantr. (when asked "Aren't you the one who is playing Cantr?")
Mi ludas ne Cantr. - I am playing not Cantr. I am playing something else. (when asked "What are you playing? Cantr?")

The sentence "Mi ne ludas Cantr" can be used in any situation, even when asked "Aren't you the one who is playing Cantr?" or "What are you playing? Cantr?". The other sentences sound weird when used in any other situation than the one I mentioned.
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Postby Jos Elkink » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:56 am

En Irlando la vetero estas ne varmeta kaj ne malvarmeta; ne neghas, ne pluvas kaj la suno ne brilas.
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Postby Junesun » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:47 pm

All answers were very good. :-)

I'll post the third lesson now since I just have some time and ideas for it, but if there are more people who'd still like to work on the previous lessons, ask questions about them or do the exercises, that's okay, too. You can join anytime.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lesson 3: A stranger at the airport

Li: Saluton! Chu iu chi tie parolas Esperanton?
Roberto: Jes! Mi parolas Esperanton. Saluton!
Li: Saluton! Mia nomo estas Li kaj mi venas el Chinio.
Roberto: Ho! Mi lernas la chinan. 'Renshi ni wo hen gaoxing'. Tio signifas 'estas plezuro renkonti vin', chu ne? Mi estas Roberto.
Li: Jes, vi pravas. Ankauh estas plezuro renkonti vin. Roberto, mi bezonas vian helpon. Tio estas mia unua fojo en Brazilo kaj mi ne parolas la lingvon. Mi volas shanghi monon, sed la monshanghisto ne komprenas min.
Roberto: Ne estas problemo. Mi tradukas por vi.
Li: Dankegon!

New words:
iu = somebody [remember "tiu"(this person) and "kiu"(who)?]
paroli = speak [English/German "parole"; French "parler"]
Esperanto = Esperanto [obvious]
jes = yes [obvious]
nomo = name [Italian "nome", Latin "nomen"]
veni = to come [Italian/Latin "venire", French "venir"]
Chinio = China [obvious]
lerni = to learn [German "lernen", English "learn"]
china = Chinese [obvious]
tio = this thing [remember "tiu"(this person)?]
signifi = to mean [French "signifier"; English "significant"(meaningful)]
plezuro = pleasure [English "pleasure"; French "plaisir"]
renkonti = to meet [French "rencontrer"]
pravi = to be right
ankauh = also, too
bezoni = to need [French "besoin"]
helpo = help [obvious]
unua = first [derived from "unu"(one)]
fojo = time (as in: one time, two times, three times) [French "fois"]
lingvo = language [Italian/Latin "lingua"]
voli = to want [German "wollen"]
shanghi = to (ex)change [English "change"; French "changer"]
mono = money [obvious]
sed = but [Latin "sed"]
kompreni = to understand [French "comprendre"]
problemo = problem [obvious]
traduki = to translate [French "traduction", Spanish "traducción"]
por = for [Spanish "por"; French "pour"]
Dankon = Thanks [German "Danke"]

In this lesson, I'd like to introduce the Accusative case, because it is almost unavoidable when making sentences. Those who know the Accusative in German, Latin or Russian, don't run away! In Esperanto, it is much, much easier. Esperanto only knows 2 cases: Nominative and Accusative. Nominative is the default case, it's what you have been unconsciously using all the time. Accusative is used only for direct objects and direct objects are easy to spot in Esperanto: any noun (word ending in -o) or pronoun (mi, vi, li ...) that is neither the subject of the sentence nor preceded by a preposition.

English only knows the Accusative for pronouns: for example, it is "He helps me" and not "He helps I". And it is "She thanks him" and not "She thanks he". Unfortunately, English also uses the Accusative for words after prepositions (e. g. "to us") and in languages like German, Latin or Russian it can be a real hassle to determine whether a word should be Accusative or not, no matter whether it follows a preposition or not, because there are also other cases used for the same purpose. Esperanto is very clear in this respect: if a word is the object of the sentence and not behind a preposition, it has to be Accusative. In any other case, it is unchanged.

The change required for the Accusative is much easier than in other languages, too: just add an -n to the word. It's the same for nouns, adjectives depending on them and even pronouns, whereas in English there is no logic behind "I" becoming "me" but "he" becoming "him" or any of the other changes.
Examples of the Accusative in Esperanto:
Mi helpas la novulon. (I help the newbie)
Mi helpas lin. (I help him)
Mi lernas la anglan lingvon. (I learn the English language) - or simply: mi lernas la anglan ("lingvon" is understood and can be omitted)
Mi lernas ghin. (I learn it)
Lupo atakas min. (A wolf attacks me; there's no equivalent of "a" in Esperanto, it's just left out)
Mi atakas lupon. (I attack a wolf)

Since the object of the sentence can easily be identified because of the -n, you can change the word order as you like. For example, "I attack a wolf" would usually be said as "Mi atakas lupon", but if you want to stress that you attack a wolf and not a bear, you can say "Lupon atakas mi" and people will not confuse it with "Lupo atakas min"(A wolf attacks me).

You will also find that the Accusative is used for most polite phrases like "Saluton"(Hello), "Bonan matenon"(Good morning), "Bonan tagon"("Good day", used like "Bonjour"/"Buongiorno"/"Guten Tag" or the like as a standard greeting during daytime), "Bonan vesperon"(Good evening), "Bonan nokton"(Good night) and "Dankon"(Thanks). That is because these phrases have to be understood as "I wish you ... (a good morning / evening / ...)".

The only words exempt from the Accusative are foreign words that are not esperantified. For example the word "Cantr" in the sentence "Mi ludas Cantr". Cantr is not the subject of this sentence, so it should normally be "Mi ludas Cantr-n" just like it is "Mi ludas ludon"(I play a game), but "Cantr-n" isn't pronounceable for an Esperantist anyways. Now, if we were to esperantify it as "Cantro" or even "Kantro", we would definitely have to add the -n in that sentence.

Now, just a sneak preview of "tabelvortoj"(table words), so that you will hopefully find it easier to learn seemingly random words like "iu", "kiu", "tiu", "tio", "tie" etc. No need to memorise it all at this time.
These tiny words that are so difficult to learn in natural languages are organised into a scheme in Esperanto. The basis is the combination of two parts into a short word. The first part is: i for the meaning "some-", ki for the question word, ti for the demonstrative word (this ...), chi for the meaning "every-" and neni for the meaning "no-".
The second part is: -u for people, -o for things, -e for places, -el for a way or method, -am for a time, and there are some more.

EDIT: the forum doesn't want to display the table correctly, so look at it on my site: http://snow.prohosting.com/sprach/eo_tabelvortoj1.htm

This may look threatening at first, but once you understood the underlying concept, it can be used very intuitively and it is certainly easier than to learn these tiny words by heart. As I said, just have a glance at it now and we'll deal with the table in more depth in a later lesson.

How to use what you learned in Cantr? There are a lot of actions you can now take. Examples:
Vi prenas noton. = You take a note.
Vi formetas malnovan ostan tranchilon. = You drop an old bone knife. (Note the -n on all the adjectives and the noun!)
Vi donas uzatan martelon al Petro. = You give a used hammer to Peter.
Vi diras: "Mi havas lignon. Kiu shanghas lignon por spinaco?" = You say: "I have wood. Who exchanges wood for spinach?" (Note that ligno requires an -n because it's the object, but spinaco doesn't because it's behind a preposition)

Exercise:
Make more sentences about yourself: which languages do you speak or learn? What are you doing today? Feel free to experiment; there's not much you can do wrong now as long as you stay in the present tense.
If you're at all interested in languages, check out the language-learning forum and my language-related website !
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Postby Junesun » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:25 pm

Ok, I think the exercise may have been too open-ended for some. Here are some sentences you can translate instead, if you prefer:

1. I learn Esperanto.
2. I do a course.
3. I don't speak Chinese.
4. Do you understand me?
5. What does "vi pravas" mean?
6. It's a pleasure to meet you.
7. Li needs help.
8. Robert translates for him.
9. I don't see the problem.
10. You take an old iron shield.
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UloDeTero
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Postby UloDeTero » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:24 pm

Ok, I'll try the first exercise:
Make more sentences about yourself: which languages do you speak or learn? What are you doing today? Feel free to experiment; there's not much you can do wrong now as long as you stay in the present tense.


Mi parolas Esperanton, kaj mi lernas la hispanan. Hodiaŭ mi faras nenion, sed mi skribas frazojn por mia morgaŭa klaso de la hispana.

I think I managed to keep all that in the present tense, although it might have complicated the sentence a bit... Translation:

I speak Esperanto, and I am learning Spanish. Today I am doing nothing, but I am writing sentences for my Spanish class tomorrow.

JS, I hope I used 'Morgaŭa' correctly above. As I understand it, 'la morgaŭa klaso' literally means something like 'the tomorrow class'. Other words that may not have come up yet are:

Hieraŭ - yesterday
Hodiaŭ - today
Morgaŭ - tomorrow
nenio - nothing
frazo - sentence (not phrase!)

:)

(You can use a vortaro (dictionary) to look up your words. I use the vortaro at lernu.net for reference. I think Junesun also linked to some others in an earlier post.)
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Junesun
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Postby Junesun » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:00 pm

The Esperanto room is now open on Paltalk (www.paltalk.com). Join in if you are interested in learning a bit, no matter what your level is. The room is called "Read Esperanto with us!" and it can be found in the Distance Learning folder. If you want, just send me a message (my nickname is Junesun there) and I'll invite you. Hope to see you there!
If you're at all interested in languages, check out the language-learning forum and my language-related website !

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