Old People

[cantrlady]

Well if you didn't die..you would never get to the point of realizing that all the stuff we have been accumulating means nothing....you would just keep accumulating and acting the same....

Yeah, but if you realize it after you're dead, what good does it do you? The next charrie you spawn, can't 'know' that lesson.

If skills start to go first..then the character will realize this before he or she dies.

[TatteredShoeLace]

I vote NO on random death from old age. Take my strength, make me eat more, but don't kill my work due to a random number. At least not for a long long time.

Is the date of their death decided on their spawning or later?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I think one thing I'd prefer about having them not die, especially not with such a wide range for a random death, is because I know that, barring extenuating circumstances such as kidnapping or pirates or something, my chars will have a chance to finish what they start...

If I ever get tired of them when they're really old, I can prepare someone younger to have their stuff or take over or whatever.

I don't want to worry that one day, my char is working on a long term goal of building a motorcycle, and is 98% finished, then *boom* the char is dead, their stuff all over the ground, the goal never reached. Working, and investing so much time and effort in getting them to their goals just to see them meet a sudden end that I don't expect? Please no.

If there must be a cut off, make it definite, and beyond what most players would even bother playing out their chars.

[Pirate Lass]

Besides... who knows if cantarians have the same life span that the human race does...

Lol - or they could reach a wise old age and transcend into another state...

*re-awakens at the youthful age of twenty with enchanced skills and all their stuff*

Yeah, I know - I'm smoking some good crack

[the_antisocial_hermit]

*re-awakens at the youthful age of twenty with enchanced skills and all their stuff*

Yeah, I know - I'm smoking some good crack

Hey, I can go with that! So... where's my crack?

[WojD]

I agree, why should Cantarians die if they can't reproduce.

...if they can't reproduce they can adopt younger chars and let him/her continue their work.

Final age should be random but high - perhaps between 120 - 150 years. Our chars don't know yet they are mortal - but when first chars start die because of old age, they must start thinking about death and planning future of their deals.

[Jos Elkink]

Dying of old age has not been implemented yet in any way.

I was always planning to either introduce random dying or, more preferably, make older people more susceptible to deadly diseases. We don't even have deadly diseases yet, but that's another issue.

I always had in mind that you should be able to play a char four or five years and that that should be long enough. Time to give your top positions in town to someone else ... And time to start a new char and think of a new personality / strategy / etc.

But then I, as a player, like this idea of starting new chars. Other players are much more concerned with forever playing the same ones. E.g. with Russell, I stopped a bit too early, and he was definitely my favourite char ever, but at the same time he had done so much in his life already - it's kind of nice to see beyond that, concentrate on new chars, and see how Quillanoi develops after Russell. In the end, you should be able to observe how Cantr develops over generations, not with the same leaders forever ...

But, I can see the arguments against as well, so it's something to think about indeed.

[Hellzon]

Personally, I'm ambivalent (whatever that means) but 60 would be WAY too low for death. Even if it's "realistic".
But then, I agree with TatteredShoeLace. Make it so the oldbies can survive forever with a lot of care, don't just kill them otright.

/Hellzon - Welcome to Rivendell, Mr Anderson

EDIT: whee, got it right then. Thanks doug R. And I was only mostly serious

[Doug R.]

Ambivalent means you don't care either way.

I agree. Random death would really suck. If I'm still playing my charries when they're that old, it means I'm still having fun, and if they have to die, at least let it be from a reason I have some preventable control over (like disease).

[Cookie]

Maybe older characters should become weaker, do less damage, become akward at most things. It's a bit ridiculous the idea of their being hundreds of ninety year olds around in 30 years time.

[glitterdown]

I sent this on to Jos Elkink via email, but figured I'd add it here to enrich the public debate:

Sorry to rant a bit, but the answer's not a simple one.

I always assumed players only had 100 or so years of life in them, it was sort of my thought to only play until they reached that point and then move on to something new. However, implementing something like this might further encourage the loss of some of longer-standing players.

I think that it might also encourage a natural exchange of power and position in the game. A growth and development that would prevent stagnation, and help to combat some of the problems younger players see as entrenched power or wealth - older characters' natural tendency to stockpile resources (I know at least one of mine is pretty severely guilty of this).

However, I was hardly the first person to play the game, even if I might be one of the most tenacious, seeing as how I'm now playing one of the oldest. Why reward your most devoted players with character-death? It seems there's a pretty severe natural attrition of characters and players anyway. People tire of the game and give it up, they can't play for a few weeks and their characters are deleted, something goes awry with their computer and they lose their information or etc. Basically, so few of us come close to 100 anyway, does it actually merit attention? Now I can see if there were a lot of people approaching 200, and it was causing serious game-imbalance, you might face a real problem that needed a "final solution" of a sort. But is that even the case? Looking at some of the age-statistics, is there a serious possibility of more than 10 people ever living past 100 anyway?

I don't know if I feel comfortable with a specific decision, now that it's been broached, but in the end it's Jos' game to direct as he wishes. So long as he's making these decisions from something more than whimsey, I cannot justifiably complain.
But I might.

After reading both Jos' post about his curiousity about how things in towns developed after his character and his work have passed from the face of Cantr, and Pirate Lass' post about rewarding perseverence with goodies, may there's a nice combination:

When your character reaches 100 (or whatever age Jos' chooses) they do die, but become a "ghost," You can see what's going on, ignore locks, travel, listen and observe the communities you invested so much in, and even observe the maestrom your death may or may not cause. It'd be both an award and a chance for someone to see the fruits of their 4-5 years of play without creating a bunch of random charries in the hopes of landing some new sleeper there, or else CR-breaching and travelling some existing charrie there to see what happens. It would also be possibly a nice reward for people to work toward, although the possiblities for CR breach with an undetectable charrie would be extreme. (Just a thought)

I do appreciate Pirate Lass' attempt to look at player-death more as a reward for devoted play than a termination of a LOT of player-work. It'd be nice to get something tangible for 5-years of play besides another notice on your welcome screen:
Your character (name here) died.
Maybe we could get a nice Cantr-green T-shirt with a smile face on it?[/list]

[The Industriallist]

Maybe older characters should become weaker, do less damage, become akward at most things. It's a bit ridiculous the idea of their being hundreds of ninety year olds around in 30 years time.

Um...you think there are hundreds of 60+ year olds in cantr, who will live another 600 days? Really?

I know I'd hate to have any of my characters die of old age...but some form of forcing generations to pass seems like an essential idea. If you could live forever at full strength, you'll see some immortal god-kings eventually...

I disagree with the notion that the thing should be medically preventable. Cantr is not a science fiction game, or a fantasy game. People being preserved alive indefinitely is definitely an SF/F trait...and there's no realism argument to back it up, either.

[SCUBA]

When your character reaches 100 (or whatever age Jos' chooses) they do die, but become a "ghost," You can see what's going on, ignore locks, travel, listen and observe the communities you invested so much in, and even observe the maestrom your death may or may not cause. It'd be both an award and a chance for someone to see the fruits of their 4-5 years of play

I like this idéa alot! Maybe this will make me stay all that time. :-)

/SCUBA

[wietse]

I dont really see the point in character dying of age.
If it ever is introduced i think i will try to train a young character to take over certain things.

I doubt if all old characters, if they survive will continue to run towns and such. It seems there is always plenty of younger characters looking for a way up who will replace an old character if they see a possibilty. If my active characters ever get really old, i am seriously thinking about giving them a quiet old age and retirement. Maybe they will start traveling more and taking it easy and just visiting old friends instead of running around organizing things.

b.t.w. I really like that description for people over ninety. I gives the some sense of mysteriousness as to how old they really could be. You could be speaking to a character that is 150! (in a few years). Such old people will probably be so rare there is no point in killing them at random. I think they few that have the will to live on will provide a good roleplay opportunity especially if you dont really know their age!

[deadboy]

Yeah having your character suddenly die because they're too old is a baaadd idea, hey ive got a great idea of how to reward all of the longest playing cantr players, lets kill off all of their characters (btw that was sarcastic to all of you who cannot tell )