NO THEY WOULDN'T!!!!
Project building train 15 weels, roof, walls, ext..
They can only travel on TRAIN TRACTS, wich will be an UPGRADABLE THING FOR ROADS. AND, can you program that train tracs can be upgradable onto any road at any time? Or do you have to go by the step by step thing?
Ok, a building that is somwat, a harbore. You can dock your train to this thing, (Of course, the name will be stopping, unstead of docking) And this building is right next to the tracts, and also, all silos will be able to unload directly into a train.
Ok, now, as for cars.
Pasanger car:10 weels, 20 seats, roof, ext
And, give the pasanger car a sertain property that sais that it can be dragged by any train, and in turn, it can drag one car, and so on and so forth.
Trains
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Pie
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Nalaris
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Pie
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Nalaris
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Actually, the whole hobos-building-temple-to-made-up-deity-on-train-that-still-moves-at-normal-speed thing kind of appeals to me...
Actually, since boats can't move when they get too heavy, maybe the same could apply to trains.
"Sorry, we can't move, we're gonna have to disconect the car with the Marble Temple to Saradomin built on the roof."
Actually, since boats can't move when they get too heavy, maybe the same could apply to trains.
"Sorry, we can't move, we're gonna have to disconect the car with the Marble Temple to Saradomin built on the roof."
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Jos Elkink
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I want to drop some ideas I have about implementing trains. I just read the whole discussion above, and take some of it into account, but part is not there. I leave a discussion of materials needed out of this, as that is RD stuff, and I care about ProgD stuff 
...
First of all, railroad tracks should be additions to roads. They can be added in much the same way as a road improvement project works, but it's not just a next stage. I.e. not highway -> expressway -> expressway + railroad ... but it's a separate thing (path + railroad, sandroad + railroad, etc.) Alongside any path or road you can build a railroad.
One could debate whether train stations are necessary (as is done above). There are arguments in favour and against (see above).
My idea is that trains should not travel like current cars do, but you should be able to set a schedule. So you basically preprogram what the train will do, in very simple terms. E.g. go foward; wait 3 hours; go backward; wait 4 hours; etc. The train will automatically follow the tracks (duh) and stop when it reaches a train station (if we're going to require those) or a location. And then it goes to the next step. A loop should also be possible, so it keeps repeating its settings.
Stations would probably be useful, so that passengers going in or out of the train, always end up in the station. That allows towns to lock stations and control access (e.g. charge fares).
What if one town has more than two railroad tracks? In that case, I guess we should have track switches
... So that only someone locally present can change the switch and the train will blindly follow however it is set. But perhaps that leads to simply too much newbie sabotage ... Something to work out, I suppose.
And who can change the schedule? Perhaps they'd need an additional lock. E.g. trains have a passenger & cargo hold, and a drivers cabin, with separate locks.
The above idea is slightly more complicated than what others have suggested, but I think it allows for more variety (why do we need more types of vehicles otherwise?) and the fixed schedule makes it much more useful for random players to make use of the system. It adds some reliability that doesn't exist with any other method of transportation.
Wrong switches can of course lead to train crashes ... As can eventually time bombs or something. Also we could have different levels of tracks in terms of how many beside a road, so that if two trains use the same track, they crash.
I would appreciate comments
...
First of all, railroad tracks should be additions to roads. They can be added in much the same way as a road improvement project works, but it's not just a next stage. I.e. not highway -> expressway -> expressway + railroad ... but it's a separate thing (path + railroad, sandroad + railroad, etc.) Alongside any path or road you can build a railroad.
One could debate whether train stations are necessary (as is done above). There are arguments in favour and against (see above).
My idea is that trains should not travel like current cars do, but you should be able to set a schedule. So you basically preprogram what the train will do, in very simple terms. E.g. go foward; wait 3 hours; go backward; wait 4 hours; etc. The train will automatically follow the tracks (duh) and stop when it reaches a train station (if we're going to require those) or a location. And then it goes to the next step. A loop should also be possible, so it keeps repeating its settings.
Stations would probably be useful, so that passengers going in or out of the train, always end up in the station. That allows towns to lock stations and control access (e.g. charge fares).
What if one town has more than two railroad tracks? In that case, I guess we should have track switches
... So that only someone locally present can change the switch and the train will blindly follow however it is set. But perhaps that leads to simply too much newbie sabotage ... Something to work out, I suppose.
And who can change the schedule? Perhaps they'd need an additional lock. E.g. trains have a passenger & cargo hold, and a drivers cabin, with separate locks.
The above idea is slightly more complicated than what others have suggested, but I think it allows for more variety (why do we need more types of vehicles otherwise?) and the fixed schedule makes it much more useful for random players to make use of the system. It adds some reliability that doesn't exist with any other method of transportation.
Wrong switches can of course lead to train crashes
... As can eventually time bombs or something. Also we could have different levels of tracks in terms of how many beside a road, so that if two trains use the same track, they crash.
I would appreciate comments
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T-shirt
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No switches. The train schedule directs the train. That way all trains arrive at the single train station and leave from there to another location connected with a railroad.
To make a railroad between settlements, both settlements at either end of the road need to have built a train station.
To make a railroad between settlements, both settlements at either end of the road need to have built a train station.
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. - G. Marx
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The Industriallist
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Seems like an awfuly massive piece of automation. In the real world, trains don't have any particular tendency to run on time, despite (or because of) operating under human supervision at all times, and having huge support organizations.
In cantr, the trains would always run on time, with no intervention at all, once set up?
In cantr, the trains would always run on time, with no intervention at all, once set up?
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WojD
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Let's summarize:
to have rail communication:
* cities must be connected by railway - kind of road, built eg. with wood and iron - new project 'build railway: 1000g of iron, 5000g of wood, 5000 stone / unit')
* when railway project is completed on each end of each railway apear station with name eg. in Seatown - 'Seatown Forest Rail Station' and in Seatown Forest 'Seatown Rail Station'; like in beginings of rail - stations in main cities was been called from name of city where trains finish...
Building of rail will be expensive enough... Then what about speed and capacity? Only people with their inventory? Or all things placed in one station will appear after some time at end of railway?
to have rail communication:
* cities must be connected by railway - kind of road, built eg. with wood and iron - new project 'build railway: 1000g of iron, 5000g of wood, 5000 stone / unit')
* when railway project is completed on each end of each railway apear station with name eg. in Seatown - 'Seatown Forest Rail Station' and in Seatown Forest 'Seatown Rail Station'; like in beginings of rail - stations in main cities was been called from name of city where trains finish...
Building of rail will be expensive enough... Then what about speed and capacity? Only people with their inventory? Or all things placed in one station will appear after some time at end of railway?
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T-shirt
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That's true. Maybe they should act like all vehicles, but only being able to travel along tracked roads and arriving at the train stations in settlements instead of the main square.
Someone needs to drive the thing. To keep customers happy preferably on time.
Someone needs to drive the thing. To keep customers happy preferably on time.
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. - G. Marx
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TatteredShoeLace
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Just A Bill
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How about this...
There are two types of train cars, Locomotives and Freight. For a train to move it must have an Locomotive. Anyone inside the Engine can control the train. For ease of programming, you may want to restrict a train to having only one Engine. Each type of car may have its own lock.
Next, train "Lines" could be introduced. Each line connects two or more towns/stations(see below) in a linear fashion. For example the Blue Line might connect Station 1 (in Town A)-> Town B -> Station 2(in Town C). In other words they can't branch.
The following rules might apply to Lines
1. Each Line is uniquely identified (may be internal to the db)
2. Each Line must start at a station (see below)
3. Each Line can be extended only once per town/station. (prevents branching)
4. Multiple lines can be in each town/station or between the same two towns/stations
Now we can add Stations. A station is a lockable building where 2 or more lines may converge. Here are some rules for stations...
1. Multiple Lines may connect to a station
2. Rail Cars may be created only in Stations.
3. Rail Cars May be linked together or moved between Lines in a station.
4. The common area of a town is considered to be outside the station on all lines to/from the station.
5. Rail cars may be moved between rooms in a station (assuming they'll fit.
Now, how this all fits together...
First someone needs to build a station. Once a station is built the following options will be available from withen the station.
1. Create Line to (location/station).
2. Extend Line (Line Name) to (Location) where Line Name is any unextended Line.
3. Build Engine.
4. Build Freight Car.
5. Attach Car to Engine.
6. Attach Engine to Line.
Once a line is built to a town, it may be attached to any one station in town. This may be specified at the time the project is set up, perhaps requiring a key to the station to be connected (if any). Or the line may not connect to any station. If the line connects with a station, the above listed options becom available. If the Line is not connected to a station, anyone on the town square may start a project, "Extend Line" and specify a town/station either in the same town, or a different town. For example you might either extend the line to another town, or connect an existing line to a new station in your town.
When your in an Engine on a line, you should be able to travel to the following locations. Example assumes you are in Town B Station B of a line that runs Station A (in Town A) -> Station B (town B) -> Station C (town C)
1. Travel to Town B,
2. Travel to Town A,
3. Travel to Station A (if you don't have a key to Atation A, you will stop in town A)
4. Travel to Town C,
5. Travel to Station C (may need key like above)
Ok, if youre still reading, let me explain why the complexity. The idea allow the builder some control over the track he/she lays, without allowing him/her to monopolize train traffic between two locations. The seperate Engine Car allow him to open up the Freight cars to passangers without allowing them to control the train. Likewise, He/She may only travel between stations and force people using his train to use his station. If he is worried about those folks taking his train cars, he can store them in a seperate room.
There are a couple of problems with this system... First, once a line enters a town, anybody can start a project to continue the line to anywhere. This invites sabotage. Of course the owner could only build between stations that he controls but that seems excessive. One possible IG solution would be to allow multiple "Extend Line" projects, with the extras being cancelled when one completes. The other problem I see is should you be able to connect an existing line that is continued thru your town with a new station. Changing a line that goes Station A ->Town B -> Town C to one that now goes Station A -> Town B ->Station B->Town B ->Town C. If you can do this you can block an existing line, possibly one not "owned" by you. If you can't, you can't branch a line after youve decided to continue it. The only solution I see is a "Line Key" but that seems unnatural somehow...
There are two types of train cars, Locomotives and Freight. For a train to move it must have an Locomotive. Anyone inside the Engine can control the train. For ease of programming, you may want to restrict a train to having only one Engine. Each type of car may have its own lock.
Next, train "Lines" could be introduced. Each line connects two or more towns/stations(see below) in a linear fashion. For example the Blue Line might connect Station 1 (in Town A)-> Town B -> Station 2(in Town C). In other words they can't branch.
The following rules might apply to Lines
1. Each Line is uniquely identified (may be internal to the db)
2. Each Line must start at a station (see below)
3. Each Line can be extended only once per town/station. (prevents branching)
4. Multiple lines can be in each town/station or between the same two towns/stations
Now we can add Stations. A station is a lockable building where 2 or more lines may converge. Here are some rules for stations...
1. Multiple Lines may connect to a station
2. Rail Cars may be created only in Stations.
3. Rail Cars May be linked together or moved between Lines in a station.
4. The common area of a town is considered to be outside the station on all lines to/from the station.
5. Rail cars may be moved between rooms in a station (assuming they'll fit.
Now, how this all fits together...
First someone needs to build a station. Once a station is built the following options will be available from withen the station.
1. Create Line to (location/station).
2. Extend Line (Line Name) to (Location) where Line Name is any unextended Line.
3. Build Engine.
4. Build Freight Car.
5. Attach Car to Engine.
6. Attach Engine to Line.
Once a line is built to a town, it may be attached to any one station in town. This may be specified at the time the project is set up, perhaps requiring a key to the station to be connected (if any). Or the line may not connect to any station. If the line connects with a station, the above listed options becom available. If the Line is not connected to a station, anyone on the town square may start a project, "Extend Line" and specify a town/station either in the same town, or a different town. For example you might either extend the line to another town, or connect an existing line to a new station in your town.
When your in an Engine on a line, you should be able to travel to the following locations. Example assumes you are in Town B Station B of a line that runs Station A (in Town A) -> Station B (town B) -> Station C (town C)
1. Travel to Town B,
2. Travel to Town A,
3. Travel to Station A (if you don't have a key to Atation A, you will stop in town A)
4. Travel to Town C,
5. Travel to Station C (may need key like above)
Ok, if youre still reading, let me explain why the complexity. The idea allow the builder some control over the track he/she lays, without allowing him/her to monopolize train traffic between two locations. The seperate Engine Car allow him to open up the Freight cars to passangers without allowing them to control the train. Likewise, He/She may only travel between stations and force people using his train to use his station. If he is worried about those folks taking his train cars, he can store them in a seperate room.
There are a couple of problems with this system... First, once a line enters a town, anybody can start a project to continue the line to anywhere. This invites sabotage. Of course the owner could only build between stations that he controls but that seems excessive. One possible IG solution would be to allow multiple "Extend Line" projects, with the extras being cancelled when one completes. The other problem I see is should you be able to connect an existing line that is continued thru your town with a new station. Changing a line that goes Station A ->Town B -> Town C to one that now goes Station A -> Town B ->Station B->Town B ->Town C. If you can do this you can block an existing line, possibly one not "owned" by you. If you can't, you can't branch a line after youve decided to continue it. The only solution I see is a "Line Key" but that seems unnatural somehow...
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Just A Bill
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Jos Elkink
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I like those ideas!! Well, as you demonstrate, some finer details have to be worked out, but I like the general way you're going ...
Not sure about trains stopping in towns without stations. It should kind of keep going until it hits the station. That makes driving easier than a car, where you have to act with every town on the way. This way you can create express lines (line with many towns but few stations, where the train keeps going from one station to the next without player intervention in between the two stations necessary) and local lines (station in every town).
...
Not sure about trains stopping in towns without stations. It should kind of keep going until it hits the station. That makes driving easier than a car, where you have to act with every town on the way. This way you can create express lines (line with many towns but few stations, where the train keeps going from one station to the next without player intervention in between the two stations necessary) and local lines (station in every town).
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wichita
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I do not really like the idea of the scheduled movement. I really think this not only complicates things, but also removes an important potential for in game organization. My thinking has been that staions can function much like harbors in a docking sense.
In fact, I would think that train movement could be handled much like docking. Rail lines can be added to roads much like improvements. Each town that wants a railway stop builds a station that can dock the train. Train motion is controlled from a locable cabin that can hold two people. An "undock" option is available from the cabin. When initiated, the code searches along the railway lines from that staion, and presents the conductor the option to "dock" to each of the next stations down the line. So, if there is a station on town C and town D down the road, the conductor can control the direction, and the train proceeds automatically to the next stop.
This still leaves the potential for how to handle tarvelling through towns with no station, and I can see that the conductor will get a new message when nearing the next staion to either "dock" or continue on. And I am not sure how much work this searching of the rail connections would place on the server, but that is a ProgD issue. I will just have to focus on the materials and construction issue with the rest of RD.
In fact, I would think that train movement could be handled much like docking. Rail lines can be added to roads much like improvements. Each town that wants a railway stop builds a station that can dock the train. Train motion is controlled from a locable cabin that can hold two people. An "undock" option is available from the cabin. When initiated, the code searches along the railway lines from that staion, and presents the conductor the option to "dock" to each of the next stations down the line. So, if there is a station on town C and town D down the road, the conductor can control the direction, and the train proceeds automatically to the next stop.
This still leaves the potential for how to handle tarvelling through towns with no station, and I can see that the conductor will get a new message when nearing the next staion to either "dock" or continue on. And I am not sure how much work this searching of the rail connections would place on the server, but that is a ProgD issue. I will just have to focus on the materials and construction issue with the rest of RD.
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TatteredShoeLace
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Trains, unlike vehicles, cannot turn around either, so theres no reverse on the road.
And after Carnegie, tracks were made of steel, not iron. Its what sparked the rise of big business.
And after Carnegie, tracks were made of steel, not iron. Its what sparked the rise of big business.
1223-4: You kill a elephant using a longbow.
Nick wrote:If you don't check your characters once a day, you're not going anywhere in Cantr.
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